Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of Hope Living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment.
Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Hello, everyone. This is Gail, AKA Sunshine.
Welcome to When Cancer Hits Home, a series presented by Epic Experience and Pickles Group, in which we explore what healing looks like for the entire family going through a cancer journey.
Today we have two special guests. We have Kelsey Mora and Chris Balmaceda joining us around the campfire. Thank you both so much. It's really great to have you here.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Thanks for having us.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: What we're going to start with, as we usually do, is I want each of you to tell me a little bit about yourself and include one fun fact. So, Kelsey, I'm going to start with you.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Okay.
So I'm Kelsey Mora and I am the chief clinical officer for Pickles Group. But my background is also as a dual certified child life specialist and licensed clinical professional counselor. So really my whole professional background is supporting kids when they're faced with illness or grief related challenges. At Pickles Group, we're really focused on helping kids and teens who have a parent with cancer that's helping parents talk to their kids about cancer and then helping kids cope with cancer and meet other kids who have a parent with cancer.
In terms of a fun fact, I struggled with this one. But I think something that people might not know about me is that I really like to dance. In fact, I started dancing when I was three years old and competing when I was seven.
And I danced all the way through college. So anytime I'm having a hard day or in a mood, I just put on some music and dance with my now 2 and 4 year old and it can always lighten the mood.
[00:02:53] Speaker C: A dance party fixes everything. I love it.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: Great. That is great. Chris, how about you?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. So my name is Chris Balmata. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and certified oncology social worker.
My main focus in work is actually medical social work. For the past eight years, I've worked as an oncology, a neuro oncology social worker.
But I also work as a private practice clinician where I focus primarily on chronic health issues and also men who maybe don't necessarily think they have a whole Lot of problems. But I really enjoy working with individuals who have chronic health issues, such as cancer diagnoses and other medical conditions.
One fun fact about me, despite how claustrophobic I get in tight spaces, one of my favorite things to do, though very expensive, is to scuba dive when I'm under the surface of the water. And, yeah, I actually hate swimming on top of the water, like, at the surface of the water. But when I'm down below with my wetsuit and my regulator, the, you know, the thing that's providing me air, I actually feel like I'm flying in. In the sea or in the water. So that's.
That's one of my favorite activities to do.
[00:04:18] Speaker C: Definitely that. Did you know that, Kelsey, about.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: I didn't know that about Chris.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: And funny enough, I actually. Yeah, I actually didn't know Kelsey really liked to dance.
[00:04:27] Speaker C: See, this is the benefit of asking everyone a fun fact. Everybody gets to know each other.
So. All right, well, let's dive in. What I want to ask both of you both questions, and we'll kind of popcorn back and forth, and we'll go from there. So what are the. Some of the most common emotional or relational challenges that families in general face when someone's going through a cancer journey? Chris, I'll start with you this time.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the biggest challenges I think our patients think about is what about my family? What do I. What do I. How do I tell my spouse?
And, you know, especially in relation to pickles group, which I'm a board member of.
How do I talk to my kids? Do I lie to them? Do I tell them everything's going to be okay?
Do I just pretend like nothing is happening, even though I'm going through this very challenging diagnosis and I may have a whole lot of physical changes on top of my emotional challenges?
What. What do I communicate with them?
And, you know, there's other questions, like, what. What do I tell my coworkers? Do I even talk to my boss?
What are the changes that I'm going to experience? And I think even just being faced with these questions or these challenges without even having to ask them, they can feel very traumatic. And so, you know, one of the first things I want to recognize is the diagnosis or even the potential for a diagnosis can be very traumatic for people. And I know trauma is sometimes an overused word nowadays, but anytime there's a significant potential or actual change coming up, it can. It can really rock your world.
And these are not uncommon questions. I really encourage people to lean into these challenging questions. You don't have to have an answer right away, but sit with it for a bit.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you, Kelsey.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, as someone who focuses really on kids and helping parents, you know, obviously Chris spoke to it. Just helping parents know, like, what about my kids? What do I tell my kids? Are they going to be ok?
At pickles group, we really help parents know how to share an age appropriate version of the truth with their kids and also how to navigate coping and just all the ups and downs that come with a cancer diagnosis. But the other thing I think is really important for people to know is that the second there's a cancer diagnosis, there's grief. It's that big change. It's the way things were before, the way things are now. And kids feel that too. Things feel really unpredictable, hard to plan.
Their parent is changing in their abilities or their appearance. And so really just normalizing all of those changes.
Some, some. Most are hard. Some could be good. Like maybe there's a lot of people bringing us meals and offering help and that feels really good. But maybe it comes and goes and so really just normalizing all of the change that can come.
[00:07:38] Speaker C: That's actually that word, normalize. I'm. I'm curious if you have specific ways to do that. I mean, is it just a matter of. Of making it open conversation involving the whole family in discussion involving the whole family and in opening the door when somebody comes over for, you know, to deliver a meal? I'm. I'm curious about the normalizing because I think that's a key part of the whole thing.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, open and honest communication, I think, goes a long way. You know, kids are, kids in particular are so curious, but people know that something's up. You know, it's. No matter how hard we try to hide it, you know, you show your emotions or you show that there's a change.
Also, just as a, as a therapist, a lot of validating, like, yes, this is really hard. Like, I see you.
I know that this is really hard and that validating can go such a long way of just, just like normal. It's okay to feel how you feel. You know, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to also have moments of joy and laughter.
Um, but I don't know if Chris has anything to add.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny. It's funny you mentioned having that sadness. Right. I think it's natural for us. It's a survival technique. Right. To move away from anything that feels uncomfortable.
Right. But the reality is the more we try to avoid discomfort, the more we are ignoring the actual experience that we're. We're. We're. We're living in. Right? Yeah.
So definitely lean into it.
Don't feel like you have to run away from it. You know, one of the things we actually talk about in therapy is being able to experience the discomfort, but also experiencing it subside as well. It doesn't last forever.
Pain can last a long time. Discomfort can last a long time. But we also have to recognize that it is likely not the only thing that we are experiencing.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: And, yeah, it's. It's hard, but it doesn't have to be forever.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: Yeah. I like what both of you have emphasized, too, is that it's okay to laugh. At the same time, it's a.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: Both.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: And you're admitting the pain and you're feeling it. You're not hiding that. But at the same time, you can still have fun. And I think that's an important part of the whole normalizing process.
So what communication strategies do you recommend that that can help family members process the difficulties, the challenges that we just talked about?
And how can families foster trust and emotional safety through the journey? So communication being part of that, establishing and fostering trust and emotional safety. So I'll let either one of you go first.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the first things that comes to mind is the feeling that someone diagnosed with cancer needs to take care of their family members.
How do I protect them? How do I make sure that they are okay?
And one thing I know a lot of patients experience is the need to feel like they have all the answers.
And I think one thing I like to empower a lot of my patients is to be okay with not knowing and saying that you don't know what's going to happen or what the treatment is or what the doctors think think is the best thing.
I mean, it goes back to being honest, like Kelsey had said.
So being okay with just not knowing and sharing that you don't know, it feels uncomfortable. It goes back to this feeling of being uncomfortable.
But you're not the physician. You don't have a magic ball that can predict what's going to happen.
You shouldn't feel pressured to know everything.
We all want to know everything, but the reality is we don't. Right. And we don't have to be the ones to know everything.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's. I'll. I'll add to that just even being able to say to your kids, I don't know. Right. That's a great question. I don't know, let me find out or let's find out together.
Or even it can be really helpful to just name out loud how you're feeling because even if you're talking to an infant, you know, I, it almost helps you feel more comfortable with the reality of saying I don't know out loud.
Being able to accept that and focus on what's within your control. Like Chris said, every detail is not maybe in someone's control, but what can I control? It is so overwhelming to have so much being thrown at you. From diagnosis to insurance, to scheduling appointments, to taking medications, to getting to appointments, to figuring out work, to parenting.
Trying your best to slow down and take things one thing at a time. It's easier said than done, but it makes it feel a little bit more manageable.
[00:12:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. Well, Kelsey, I'll let you speak to this. But kids are smart too.
They, I don't want to say they, they know when you're lying, but they, they understand, I think if you don't know and that's okay. And so it seems like they're. Honesty again, right? Honesty is, is the way to go.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And small bite sized conversations, it doesn't have to all be talked about in one conversation, but little conversations at a time. And when kids really trust that, you know, my parents or my adults are going to tell me when there's updates or changes and I know that I can ask questions when I have them, usually it makes the in between feel a little bit more natural and normal because it's not this kind of walking on eggshells feeling. It's like this is an okay topic.
And starting with what kids absolutely need to know, that usually then gives kids permission to ask what they want to know.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.
So what signs should families look for that it might be time to seek outside help like a therapist or a social worker or something like that?
Kelsey?
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean, for kids it's usually anything that's kind of feels out of proportion with the situation and certainly things that are disrupting everyday functioning. So for kids that might be sleep or toileting or eating, any sort of regression, nightmares, difficulty going to school, it's normal to have a range of emotions. It's normal to struggle with sleep a little bit. But when it's very prolonged or intense, that's usually when a kid may be needing more help. Kids can't always say what they're feeling.
They may show it in different ways. So big outbursts or tantrums, physical symptoms, you know, stomach aches, headaches, Things like that. But again, some of it is normal. It's really when an adult feels like this, feels like it's going on too long or it's too big or it's too disruptive is when I would, I would suggest seeking outside help. I always say cancer itself is not a problem to be fixed, it's a situation to be supported. So that's why Pickles group is not therapy. It's a safe, supportive space for kids to meet other kids. And that can sometimes help prevent difficult outcomes because kids have a community, they have honest information. That's really what we're trying to do is prevent bigger challenges.
But yeah, that's kind of the kid side of things.
[00:14:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Funny on the adult side, I feel like it's actually very similar.
Right. Anytime you start to notice a disruption, a prolonged disruption in your day to day routine, there's likely something going on that is impacting your ability to cope. So let's say you're noticing after a couple weeks you're not getting the same restful sleep that you used to get. You start to notice that maybe your ability to focus at work is not as good as it used to be. Which again is all very understandable. When you or a loved one is going through any sort of medical condition. Right. Especially an oncologic diagnosis, that's when I think it's helpful to get a little bit more support.
And seeing a therapist doesn't necessarily mean that you have a specific mood disorder. Right. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are depressed. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are anxious. It means that there is a disruption in your day to day routine that you're seeking additional support for.
And therapy is not meant to fix you. It's meant to help you discover the tools that are going to help you.
How do I frame this?
Work through the situation that you're currently in to the best of your ability or figure out what other tools you can utilize. And that other tool can be another family member, another friend or other medical professionals.
[00:16:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I like what you've both emphasized, the need for support.
Right. We're not fixing this problem. That's medical doctors and chemo and whatever else is going to help with that. But in terms of the moving through the situation, the therapy or the social worker or the group like, like Pickle's group, where kids can talk to other kids, there's support in that. Even if it's not officially a support group in that sense.
I think that's, that's all part of that Normalizing, too. I think that's great.
So you're both mental health professionals who focus on supporting families in different ways, who are supported or who are impacted by cancer. What strategies or approaches do you each use and prioritize in therapy?
Chris, why don't we go with you first?
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Oh, that's a tough question.
Well, it's tough in the sense that it's been a while since I've stopped and thought about what specific strategies. Right.
Actually, you know, maybe that. That is something we talk about right now is that therapy is not one size fits all. Right? You're. You. You're living a unique situation.
And what worked for one person, even with the same diagnosis and same age, you could even be in the same city, may not necessarily work for you because your. Your lives are totally different. You have similarities, but. Similarities, but you're not the same person.
And so I would encourage people to actually find a therapist or a provider or whatever the support modality is that works best for you.
And sometimes it takes a little bit of time, you know, when. When finding. When it comes to finding support, sometimes I like to joke that it's kind of like dating again, and it takes a little bit of time to figure out who the right person is for you to get that support.
And when I'm talking about the right person, that can be therapist, that can even be your friend. Heck, that might even be your spouse. Right?
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Right.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Your spouse doesn't have to be, you know, everything your sole source of support.
My partner is really great at certain things, but I know that he struggles in. In other areas that I've learned that I need to look at other people or turn to other people for. For that form of support.
So just wanted to throw that out there, especially as we. We think about strategies or approaches to prioritize in therapy. You know, I think the other thing that I really encourage people to do in therapy is to just be honest with yourself. Right.
The more you're honest with yourself, the more that you're really going to be helping you.
You don't have to put on a strong face for your therapist or your oncologist.
Just be honest. Right. Because the reality is you're just doing yourself a disservice if you're not talking about or expressing what it is you're truly feeling.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. 100% not. Not a one size fits all. It's a little hard to say, like, this is exactly what I do with every patient. I know that's not what's exactly being Asked. But I will say, you know, with kids, obviously the approach is a lot more play based. A lot of hands on, a lot of playing, a lot of creative art. And you know, I do a lot of art making. I'm usually down on the floor. You know, I might have a dress, a dressier, you know, clothes, but I always have my tennis shoes, you know, so it's a little bit more, more active and creative. That being said, there are modalities and providers that would take that approach with adults as well, but with kids it's kind of a must have.
Yeah. You know, teenagers might do a little bit more talk therapy, but I'll say, like when I'm with a teenager, sometimes even just having a coloring sheet and talking is so much more comfortable. So just a lot more of that kind of art, play based approach.
Sports always, you know, with kids and, and I, you know, I usually open my, my box of fidgets and usually they're like, they always grab something to hold on to, which I know a lot of, a lot of therapists use with all ages, but to Chris's point, just really sitting with those feelings. So there's, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the treatment and the, you know, just momentum of cancer treatment and survivorship itself that to have some dedicated time to really slow down and feel and acknowledge and notice what's coming up. Because if we don't, it just lives somewhere, it just gets stuffed inside and we feel it in aches and pains or difficult sleep later.
So it's really about making time and space for that part of things so that it can help overall healing and, and wellness. Really.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: And one thing I'll add to, you know, especially if you are looking for a, a mental health provider, I think providers, you know, especially in the context of cancer care or chronic medical conditions, I think providers that tend to utilize either solution focused brief therapy or acceptance and commitment therapy tend to be.
I think those providers tend to meet the needs of patients with oncologic care a little bit more. Right. Because again, we can't fix the cancer, but we can figure out how we get the support both within ourselves and from other people.
And I think those two modalities of treatment are pretty helpful in this context. And it's not to say that other modalities of treatment aren't helpful. Right, right. But I do think that those two modalities, and I'm biased because that's what I tend to use, but yeah, can.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: You state both of those again and give me A brief one liner on what each of them.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Solution focused brief therapy is one of the modalities I had mentioned. And the main thing is what's the problem in identifying what you have control over to fix? Right. It's not necessarily focusing solely on cancer and fixing that cancer. It's identifying that there is this problem. I have cancer and it's impacting my life in this way. But what do I have control over in this situation to actually fix or to not fix, rather I should say modify, modify, then the other one is acceptance and commitment therapy.
Funny enough, it was actually primarily utilized for like traumatic experiences or very challenging relationships.
Acceptance and commitment therapy allows you to understand that there is this thing that you really don't have any control over and understanding and committing to the fact that I can't control, I can't change it. But here's what I do have control over.
I think what a lot of people also find is that a lot of providers utilize many different modalities of therapy within their sessions.
So yeah, yeah.
[00:24:00] Speaker C: I'm curious if within a family you said one. One. There's no one size fits all. And I'm wondering if.
I'm guessing you see that within families that different family members, adult child, siblings, spouses need different modalities.
I'm wondering if one of the things that people struggle with is also comparing themselves to how the other person is dealing with it. Like if there's one sibling who seems to be fine and the other one is not, is. Is that something you see or same thing with the adults, the adults in the room, the. The spouses or the partners. Is that something you see people struggle with?
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's no, like coping just looks different for everybody. There's no one way to cope. And so even, you know, sometimes we'll have siblings in our connect over cancer program for through Pickles group and they may be in the same group, they may be in different groups, some may be more talkative, some more quiet. I mean everyone is their own human, regardless of if they're in the same family. And so just one thing I encourage a lot for families through pickles group is really just like playing around with different ways of coping.
We often think of slow coping, breathing, meditation, music, and often kids may need jumping jacks and running and you know, screaming into a pillow or, you know, and from my approach is if it's safe, right. If they're not hurting themselves or hurting something. But it needs to be physical and big and bold. Like that is coping and that can actually regulate the nervous system just as effectively as taking a deep breath or doing a meditation. So just really understanding that there's a lot of different ways to cope and to regulate the nervous system. System. And. Yeah, I mean, my. My own dad has cancer, and I see how my mom and my sister, my brother and I are all dealing with it differently. And it's just. It's the beauty of being all our individual selves, but it can make things complicated or confusing at times, too.
[00:25:59] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely.
Chris, do you have anything to add to that?
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I comparison. I. I encourage people to compare to see what potentially will work for them, not as a guide. Right. Because when we. When we start to use what has. Is working for other people, sometimes it can feel like we're trying to shove a square peg through a round hole.
So I.
It. It's tough. Right, because we don't have a handbook on how to handle all of these different situations in life.
And so it's. It's very natural for us to say, oh, well, you know, my cousin did this. It worked for her. I should do this too.
And maybe you. You should try something similar to it or give it a shot, but also be okay. Or, you know, remember that maybe it's not going to work exactly the same for you or for your family or for their family.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:27:00] Speaker C: Is there.
Or I'm wondering if there's something about.
Or ways that we can improve mental health care in the context of cancer care. If you can both speak to that.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I wish it were accessible to everyone, everywhere. You know, we're talking about the best modalities and dating a therapist. The reality is not everyone has the luxury of being able to do that because there. It can be hard to access the right support. And so I'm sure Chris will talk about his experience working in a hospital, but really, the more integrated we can make mental health care as part of health care, because it is. It's essential. And you'll hear a lot of oncologists say this like, you're. Well, your. Your physical health is your mental health, and we have to treat both as such. And so ideally, when that's integrated into care and the second there's a diagnosis, that service and that support is accessible to all patients. That's the dream.
Pickles group is really trying to fill the gap of supporting kids who have a parent with cancer because there's not enough support services for that. And thankfully, we're a nonprofit organization, so we can do that free and make it really accessible to anyone, anywhere.
But I just wish it were better integrated and that we're not waiting for a crisis. We're not waiting for someone to be struggling in an intense and unmanageable way, but that we're really proactively recognizing. This is hard, and you need support, and it's okay to not be okay. And mental health is health, and let's just approach all of that up front.
And we just had a parent panel. We do a lot of parent panels through Pickles group and the women on the panel. It was our black families panel in honor of Juneteenth, and they were all like, mental health is health. Say it again. Mental health.
So it's definitely essential.
[00:28:51] Speaker C: Yeah, Chris.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll speak a little bit about my experience working as an oncology social worker. So I was fortunate enough to work in a comprehensive cancer center that had me as an integrated member of the team.
It's pretty rare to have a social worker or mental health providers specifically housed within your oncologist office.
And I totally understand that not everyone has access to that.
But one of the benefits is that you have quicker or sometimes even direct access to a medical or a mental health professional within your oncologic care.
If you don't have access to that, I really encourage you to find someone within your care team that at least has the awareness of the importance of mental health.
I come from a family of physicians. I'm the only one in my family who's not a physician.
Two members of my family are oncologists, and I love them very dearly, but they are not always the best people to speak with about the emotional experiences that someone is going through. They're excellent clinicians, excellent scientists, excellent physicians, and they care very much about their patients, but not always the best people to be speaking to. And that's okay. It's no fault of theirs. They're still wonderful people. I love them dearly. You don't want me prescribing your chemotherapy, so come talk to me about your emotional experiences and then go to them for your oncologic care. Right.
See if you can find someone on your team, on your care team that really has an understanding of mental health.
It can be.
Hopefully there's a social worker or a care coordinator that you can speak with or a navigator.
Oftentimes, I find that the advanced practice providers are really great at understanding mental health care.
Advanced practice providers are people like nurse practitioners or physician assistants.
And take a look at your practices or your care team's website to See if they have any resources there.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: And then through palliative care or spiritual health as well, like chaplains, just any kind of. Any of the psychosocial support as well. Sorry, Chris. I just wanted to put a plug for.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: No, I'm really glad you did. You. You said the P word, which I think a lot of people are scared of. A lot of people get nervous when you hear the word palliative care. But palliative care is part of your current treatment plan, or hopefully it's part of your current treatment plan, because it's, you know, they're fantastic clinicians that really care about you as a person overall. And it's not to say that your oncologist doesn't care about that. It's just that, again, they're focused more on treating the cancer, whereas the palliative care team is more focused on supporting you as a whole person.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely.
Is there anything else that either of you would like to share that I haven't asked you about specifically?
I'll just kind of throw that out there.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Be afraid to say no.
Whatever you feel isn't right for you. Right. So, like, sometimes that means the treatment that's offered to you. Sometimes that also means the casserole or food that someone wants to bring over to you. Right.
One of the things I hear a lot from my patients is that there's so many people trying to contact me and try to help me, and I feel like I'm spending more time helping them help me, so it's okay to say no. The other thing, too, is you're in the situation where you have 20 different people telling you what you should and shouldn't do or what you need to do in order to get treatment from your cancer. It's this feeling of loss of control over your life. One of the best ways to regain that feeling of control is to determine what is for you and what isn't for you.
And saying no, I think, is very empowering for people. So don't be afraid to say no.
[00:33:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Kelsey.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I would like to add, just, I think when it comes to supporting your mental health, it can feel hard to make time and space for it. And I want to remind listeners that it can be really small and simple.
It could be taking a drink of water. It could be splashing your face with cold water. It could be taking a deep breath, listening to one song, because so often we avoid it because it just feels like not the place where we can put our energy.
And I always Say it's like people. I say, you got it. You can't feel. You can't pour from an empty cup. Well, your cup is empty when you're dealing with cancer. Like, and so let's just put a few drops in it, you know, add it at a time, and one drop becomes three drops or comes five drops. But that's sometimes all you can do. And it's better than nothing. So really just small doesn't have to be big or elaborate to mean something. And that's true for kids too. Like small connection, just small time. That hug before bed or that, you know, note that post it note in their lunch when you don't feel good and you're, you know, nauseous all day.
Little. Little things can go a long way.
[00:34:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: And sometimes doing. Sometimes doing nothing is.
Is that too right? Like, I like to encourage people to just lock themselves in the bathroom for five minutes.
Because if you're overwhelmed with taking care of your loved one who has a cancer diagnosis or yourself or the people that are around you, you know, like Kelsey said, sometimes it feels like you're pouring from an empty cup. But if you just give yourself five minutes and, you know, even with your kids, just sit on the couch for five minutes and just be right, that can be recharging in itself.
[00:35:12] Speaker C: Definitely.
Okay, well, our. Our final question, which I ask everyone.
Marshmallows over a campfire. Slow and steady or flaming crispy. Chris, I'll start with you this time.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. See, I'm a texture person and I like variance and texture, so.
And I'm also a bit of a foodie, so I would figure out a way to still get the center nice and gooey, but still a nice char on the outside so that you get that texture and a little bit of that flavor.
Yeah, change too.
I know. That was complicated.
[00:35:48] Speaker C: No, I'm going with you. I. That was beautiful.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: I can picture it.
[00:35:54] Speaker C: Yes, exactly, Kelsey.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: So I would love a nice slow and steady golden brown marshmallow, and I rarely can accomplish that.
Often I'm burning it. I've, like I mentioned at the beginning, I have a 2 and a 4 year old, so often I'm helping them with their marshmallow and, you know, time is of the essence, so I would say I more often eat a charred marshmallow, but I would prefer a golden brown.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Beautiful. Both of your answers are so complex and full. I love it.
Well, thank you both. Kelsey, Chris, thank you both so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
And I'm sure those listening do as well. So to those of you listening, until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep Living Beyond Cancer.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires of Living Beyond Cancer. For more information about Epic Experience and our programs, or to donate, please visit our website at epicexpo.
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[00:37:24] Speaker B: Police still are not slight the family.
[00:37:28] Speaker C: Man'S bright and woes we will rise once again.
