[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of Hope living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment.
Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond Cancer.
[00:01:14] Speaker C: Hello everyone. This is Gail, AKA Sunshine. Welcome to When Cancer Hits Home, a series presented by Epic Experience and Pickles Group, where we explore what healing looks like for the entire family going through a cancer journey.
Today we have four individuals joining us. I'm really excited about this one. We have Hazel and Ali Sens and we have Julia and Maddie McGuire.
We have two different mother daughter pairs for this one. So I'm really looking forward to this. Thank you all for joining us.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Thanks for having us.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: So I'm going to start by asking each one of you to just share a beef brief background and one fun fact. So you can be brief on the background but you can't forget the one fun fact. I will say that. So let's Hazel, I'm going to start with you.
[00:02:04] Speaker D: My name is Hazel, AKA Hazelnut, and I'm a retired pediatric nurse. I live in Golden, Colorado and my fun fact is I was born in the back of a car in Puerto Rico.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: That is a first. I've done a lot of these podcasts and no one has said that, so congratulations.
Maddie, let's go with you Next.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maddie. I live in the North Chicago suburbs of in Wilmette, Illinois.
I am an only child. This is my mom and my fun fact is that I play ice hockey and I've had a couple opportunities to play at the United center in Chicago where the Blackhawks play.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: Very cool. Very cool.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Julia Hi, I'm Maddie's mom, Julia McGuire and I work with not for Profits, for a Living, which is a lot of fun.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Maddie.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: It was. It took me seven years and seven pregnancies to have Maddie. So my fun fact is my lucky number seven.
[00:03:16] Speaker C: Awesome.
Allie, how about you?
[00:03:19] Speaker E: Hi, I'm Allie.
I am from Golden, Colorado. I'm Hazel's daughter.
I'm a biomedical engineer working in orthopedics technology.
Fun fact About Me I'm on a current journey to collect records on my Japanese family history on my mom' which involves writing to municipal offices in Japan. So it's been a really fun journey.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: So do you know Japanese?
[00:03:48] Speaker E: No. That's what Makes it.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: So I was gonna say that is probably what adds to the fun.
Awesome. Thank you all. Okay, so let's dive in. I'm going to start by asking both of the moms to tell us a little bit about your diagnosis story, when you were diagnosed, how you found out, and also how old your kids were at that time and how you told them. So, Julia, I'm going to start with you this time.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: So I have a two part story. My first diagnosis was more than ten and a half years ago. And so she was only six years old. And I was going in for a number of blood tests, even pre diagnosis. And what was interesting is that in the middle of that journey, she, at 6 years old, said, mommy, why are you going to the doctor so much? Are you going to die?
Before I even had received my diagnosis, this was in the air. I got the diagnosis and we sat down and talked about the fact that mom had a blood cancer.
Bone marrow wasn't working right. But I had the best doctors in the world and they would help us. So we moved back here to Chicago, which is where my family's from. We were in California with that diagnosis. We kind of got that under control after years of her having the mommy that wore the mask and had cancer.
And then when she was 13, she was actually in the car with me when we got the call that I had breast cancer.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: Oh, gosh.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: So that's how I told her.
And what I love is we have a dark sense of humor. And so he said, mom, does this mean I need to do two 5Ks?
[00:05:16] Speaker C: I love the sense of humor.
[00:05:18] Speaker D: That's awesome.
[00:05:20] Speaker C: Hazel.
[00:05:22] Speaker D: I was diagnosed in 2014 and it was an incidental finding, meaning that they weren't looking for it. They did another test for something I was going to the doctor for, and by accident, it just happened to catch the bottom of my left lower lobe. So I was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer.
I found out, you know, after the scans, my doctor called me at work telling me that my bladder and kidneys were great, but I had a large solid mass and that I needed to get that looked at. So that kind of threw me for a loop because I had absolutely no, no idea that I had lung cancer. And being a non smoker my whole life and running marathons, it came at quite a surprise.
My kids were. Allie was 22 at the time and Mia was 20 at the time when I was diagnosed.
The way that I told them, I had to kind of hide it from the girls at first because Ally was down in Texas and she was going to school at A and M, and we don't have any family. There was no support system for her there other than maybe some folks at church.
And I. The last thing I wanted to do was to. And it was right before graduation, was tell her something like that and have her all alone and not have support of family right there. So I didn't tell her until graduation, which was a few months off.
And I didn't tell my other daughter, Mia, until she was done with her exams and she came back for the summer.
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Gosh.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: I have to ask. How was it holding on to that secret and not being able to tell them? Because I'm sure you talked to them multiple times in between.
[00:07:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
You know, because they were both away for school, it was easier because I didn't have to see them.
It was really hard. Once we went down to Texas for her graduation and I had to see her face to face and not tell her because I wanted this to be a really happy moment and not make it about me. And so that was extremely hard because I was super sick and I was just medicine. And she noticed that I was sick and just said, mom, why are you so sick? And I said, oh, honey, I'm car sick from the ride. You know, still days afterwards.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:57] Speaker D: Car sick and driving back and I'm still sick. Oh, I'm so car sick.
[00:08:02] Speaker E: You know, I hear that Texas doesn't have a single curve in any road.
[00:08:08] Speaker C: Or mountain or anything.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Right?
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:11] Speaker D: Right. But that was probably the hardest thing is it was easy when they weren't around, but face to face, it was. Was super hard.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: And then.
[00:08:19] Speaker D: And then to ask. Turn around and ask Ally to hide it from her sister.
Her sister didn't come home from school for another month or so. And I just said, honey, you can't tell Mia yet, you know, because I don't want her to feel like that's what she wanted to think about, is me and cancer instead of her finals. So.
[00:08:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
Wow. Well, I'm gonna go to you next, Allison. I'm gonna ask you and Maddie what you remember. So I'm going to ask you, what do you remember about this? Learning about it?
How did you feel about it? How did you process it? Especially given, I guess, finding out months after the fact.
I'm just curious how that all went.
[00:09:03] Speaker E: Well, mom waited to tell me until we had finished our drive home from Texas. And it is one of the most vivid memories I have in my mind.
I was literally taking the diploma out of the tube and putting it into a frame when she stopped me and told me she needed to tell me something.
And I remember feeling like the floor had fallen out from under me. And kind of like when you're on one of those really tall rides and it drops and you can't breathe because you're dropping so fast, that was what it felt like to me.
And then as the night progressed, I remember feeling anger and feeling like what had happened to our family was incredibly unfair.
And I think I sat with that anger for a few days, just really trying to process the shock of the diagnosis. And I was texting friends from college about it. And what ended up kind of turning around my perspective in that immediate moment was a friend of mine who had lost her father to cancer when she was a teen. She said that even though my time with my dad was shorter than I wanted, I got to spend those years with the best dad in the universe. And that's better than a whole lifetime with someone who wasn't him.
And I feel like once she had told me that, I started to transition from this state of, like, panic and. And anger to a place of gratitude and strength and just making the most of every moment. So.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:44] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Maddie, how about you?
[00:10:48] Speaker A: I remember the first time, I was only 6, so I didn't really understand what cancer really was and what my mom was really going to. I tried my best to understand it in the best way that I could, and I. I do remember, though, one time my grandfather had to come in. He lived in Chicago, and we lived in California, and he flew out to California to stay with me, and I ended up bringing him to school with me one day for, like, a bring your family member into school day or something.
And everyone was like, oh, like, a lot of people had brought in, like, their parents. And I was like, oh, my grandpa's here because my mom's in the hospital.
And not really, like, understand, like, I didn't really understand the gravity of that.
[00:11:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: You know, Right. What was going. What my mom was going through. But I do remember your first doctor whose name is escaping me, Dr. Shea. Dr. Shea was my best friend. He was my favorite human being on the planet, and I haven't seen him in years.
But I do remember meeting him for the first time, and he had kids of his own, and he really knew how to explain to me what my mom was going to. Going through and making everything seem like it was going to be okay and that he was going to take really great care of her. And in that. When I first spoke with him, it both like, scared me really bad for the first time, but then also made me feel a lot better for the first time because I both understood what was happening, and I understood that it was going to be okay. And then the second time, we were in the car, she just picked me up from school, and we were running to the grocery store.
And I think. I don't even remember what we were getting, but it was just, like, one thing. And I went in and got it, and I went in and I was like.
Like, was that, like, did I. Was I really just, like, is that how it works? Is that like. Like, did she just call her and tell her that? Like, I was really, like, confused, and I. I remember feeling like it was really unfair. I was like, my mom had to go through this whole journey to be MDs to beat her blood cancer, and now she has to do it again.
But then that year ended up being one of the most amazing years because although my mom was going through something so awful, she was also the manager of my hockey team that year.
And so we had these patches sewn onto our jerseys that said, julia Strong with a shamrock.
[00:13:23] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: And that community was just one of the most incredible sisterhoods. Community that I've ever been a part of. And so, again, like, the fear and sort of dread coming with those diagnoses was something that I really do think that no child, no young adult, no daughter, son, or, like, child of a parent should ever have to go through. But to have that sort of community surrounding you and built.
[00:13:51] Speaker D: Built.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Have. Have that community be built through.
[00:13:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: An experience such as that is so wonderful.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
I'm curious. You two have very different experiences. Ally and. And Maddie, in the sense that, Ally, you did have a sibling and you were a little bit older, and. And Maddie, you didn't. And I'm curious, Ally, if you did find, I guess, support in your sibling once you were able to tell Mia and then. And Maddie, I'm wondering where you found support because you didn't have a sibling.
And if either of you have an immediate answer, you can go ahead and jump in, because I know I just threw that one at you out of the blue.
[00:14:29] Speaker E: Sorry. The sun is, like, forming a spot.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: It's like a spotlight.
[00:14:34] Speaker C: It is. So you're next.
[00:14:36] Speaker E: Yeah. After I answer this question, I'll close the blinds.
You know, at first, we really leaned on each other very heavily, and I had already been accepted to a master's program at csu, where Mia was completing her undergraduate degree. And so shortly after this summer of mom's diagnosis. We moved in together, and we had a lot of opportunities to talk about it and work through it together.
I think we had different ways of processing it, but being together through those first couple of years was. Was incredibly critical.
[00:15:17] Speaker C: So, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Maddie.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: I would say that I found a lot of comfort in my extended family. I have an uncle and now an aunt, his wife.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Now.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: I don't. I don't remember if they were dating at the time, but my uncle Dennis is like another third parent to me. And I remember he would always take me out to lunch, and he would always come over and sit in the backyard. And I have this picture. I wish I could show it, but I'm not sure where it is. Of him wearing my mom's pink breast cancer.
[00:15:52] Speaker C: I love it.
That's great.
Julia. That's your brother?
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: Her. Her baby brother.
And though it was.
I wouldn't say awkward, but it was a bit isolating to not have a sibling to sort of talk to you about going through the same thing. I will say that. And I know this is a bit of the point of the podcast that that was when I found out about Pickles, and I started going to Pickles.
[00:16:21] Speaker C: And like, oh, that's great.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Really connect with those other kids was such an incredible experience.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: Ah, perfect.
Okay, back to Hazel and Julia, I'm curious if cancer changed the way you parented your children.
That's part one. And second, as part of that, what were the most challenging moments? And you can pick either question to answer first. So first, did it reshape the way you were parenting? And what challenges did you experience along the way? Julia, I'll start with you.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. For me, I mean, because I'd gone through so much to have Maddie, I. I was in love with being a mom. I'm one of nine kids grew up in this raucous household and, like, ended up with my only who's wonderful, my, you know, pearl of great price that I would do. Do it a million times over.
So I was very present already in my parenting because I knew this was sort of my one shot at it.
But what I really did differently was facing what I might not be here for.
And I think I was a less hovery parent very deliberately because I really had to. Felt I had to prepare her to be here without me.
[00:17:36] Speaker C: Oh, wow. I would have never thought of that. Yeah, everything.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: I mean, you know, everything I did. This young woman could cook her own meals at a young age.
I would talk to her. I think it put a lot of pressure on her, because everything I taught her, I had this intensity to at too young an age about wanting her to be ready to be a young adult before her time.
[00:17:57] Speaker D: Right.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: And so, no, you have your own hockey bag. You have to do this.
My first goal was to get to second grade at her first communion, and I made it there. But I didn't dare think about our junior high graduation or even thinking about high school until we were in seventh grade. And that's when I got diagnosed again. And I was like, I just found this path, and now I'm, like, going to take her on college visits. And I talk about that earlier in life than we might have.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: I don't know how much damage that did, but that was also difficult. Part is I had a hard time, like, thinking about too far ahead. I wanted to prepare her, but I didn't want to think about what I'd be missing.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That definitely. That is a.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: A both.
[00:18:45] Speaker C: And you want to help her. And yet that requires thinking about all these what ifs and not wanting to.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Pull back too soon. I was still here, right?
[00:18:53] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Hazel, how about you?
[00:18:58] Speaker D: I think that because my kids were older that I didn't really reshape the way I parented. I think that we've always been really close, all of us.
Maybe the one difference that I made is I was more intentional with getting together with my kids, making sure that there were opportunities to do things together.
We do a lot of things together anyway, but maybe increase those opportunities to. To be together. Because I think a lot of times parents take it for granted that your kids, you know, are. Oh, they're just up there, no problem. They can't make it to dinner. They can't do this or that.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: And.
[00:19:42] Speaker D: And before you know it, that time is gone. And so just trying to be intentional about, hey, let's. Let's get together every Sunday, or let's get together, and we get together every Thanksgiving anyway. But we do a camping thing and just doing things and having more intention with what I do with my children.
Probably the most challenging thing, I think, as they get older is, of course, the sadness. But when you tell your kids and they're old enough to understand the diagnosis, they're old enough to understand mortality. They're old enough to understand what life might be because they may now have a parent in a couple years, because that was. My prognosis, was two years.
So just trying to, you know, have that in their life and see that in their life was really, really sad for me and really Sad because as a parent, as I'm sure you know, Julia is just.
Especially when you have a girl, you dream about things that you want to do with your older children.
I always dreamt, oh, I. I can't wait to see them get married. I can't wait to see them in a wedding dress. I can't wait to have grandchildren. And those things just got stripped away.
And it was.
That was really, really hard for me to just swallow. That was a very hard pill to swallow.
But, you know, being intentional and not letting things rule your life like that.
I decided to take my girls and try wedding dresses on.
Instead of waiting for them to get married, I just took them to get to a bridal store and they tried on all these beautiful, expensive gowns with no intentions of buying them.
[00:21:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:47] Speaker D: And we had a heyday. It was bittersweet. We cried, we laughed. We took lots of pictures, and I got my moment. And I thought, you know what? If nothing else, I've seen my girls in wedding dresses.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: So.
[00:22:01] Speaker D: Gosh, yeah, that's.
[00:22:03] Speaker C: That's amazing. When did you do that?
[00:22:06] Speaker D: Right. When I got diagnosed, probably.
[00:22:07] Speaker C: Oh, really?
[00:22:08] Speaker D: Yeah, probably a few months after. I just decided, I'm not. I'm not going to let this go.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: I'm.
[00:22:13] Speaker D: Because I may never see it.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:15] Speaker D: So I. I decided to do that. And that was something that I have really, really fond memories of. It was really.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Speaker D: I'm glad I did that.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: What? That.
That's taking charge. That's taking control. Of what? Of what you can. That's amazing.
[00:22:31] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: So I'm going to come back to you, Ali, and. And, Maddie, how do you think, being the age you were? So, Ali, you were in your 20s. Maddie, you were six and a teenager. You can pick which one you want to answer this question for, but how do you think it affected you differently than if you had been even younger than you were? So, Ali, if you had been, I don't know, teenager or even a small child, and Maddie, same for you. I'm curious how you think it could have been different. If you can envision that, I guess. Ellie?
[00:23:04] Speaker E: Yeah, I think it's kind of a blessing and a curse to be a little bit older.
I think on the one hand, I was able to step up to the plate as a real support system for my mom, which would probably not be the case with a small child.
And so I think one of the great things about it was that she was able to be truthful with me and tell me her fears and her worries, and we were able to cry together about it, rather than her crying alone behind a closed door and then coming out with a smile.
By the same token, I think being old enough to understand the gravity of the situation means you carry a heavier load. And so for a few years following her diagnosis, there'd just be random days where I'd break down into sobs because I would realize the other shoe could drop at any time. And yeah, so, yeah, understanding that it does allow you to approach each day as a precious gift. Um, and I think with a small child there, there's probably this need to return to business as usual a little bit and keep your diagnosis a secret. So I'm thankful that I was able to be there for my mom and able to kind of take charge of my own world with the information I was given.
[00:24:34] Speaker C: So, yeah, yeah, Maddie.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: If I could.
I think hearing this question, my mind automatically starts to compare the two experiences, like my being 6 and then my being 13 as 6 years old.
If I'm going to be quite honest, I don't remember a lot of the bad times. I, I, I don't remember.
I just, it was, I mean, it was also a lot less visible for me because my mom didn't lose her hair. She was in the hospital the majority of the time. She was never really sick in bed at our house.
We were going through a move, I mean, almost instantaneously after she was diagnosed. And then the second time when I was 13, she did lose her hair and I was playing hockey and she was the manager and that meant that she couldn't be there and it was obvious that she wasn't there. She was joining sort of virtually and, But I think given the ages, even within that, I guess six or seven year time span between the two diagnosis, like, it really did hit me harder as a 13 year old because I was already starting to, you know, enter that sort of phase in every teenager's life where, like friendships get so dramatic and complicated and I mean, my mom, I mean, still to this day, I tell her about all of that stuff and it was like I like had all these things going on in my own life that felt like everything and then, oh, that I like, all of a sudden all those things seemed like nothing. Like it all just seemed like trivial matters that really wouldn't matter in a year even. But my mom having this cancer again and I feel that I, again, I was both young and had I been older, I really, what Allie said really like touched my heart and that, yeah, being older, I mean, would have even the age I am now I. It would have hit me even harder than it did. It would have been a much larger, heavier weight to have on my shoulders.
[00:27:04] Speaker C: That is real. I didn't have kids when I was diagnosed, and I wasn't a child of it. And I don't think I would have thought of it the way you two have explained it. I think I would have thought of it being the opposite, that it would actually have been harder as a child. So thank you both for sharing that. That, I think is very insightful.
Yeah.
So I'm wondering, this is a question for all four of you.
How has your relationship changed as you've gone through this? How have you grown together through this journey? Hazel, I'll start with you.
[00:27:34] Speaker D: You know, I really think that the relationship that I have with my girls has gotten closer.
We were always close, but I think since I was diagnosed, there's not a day that I really don't speak to Allie every day.
My youngest one, Mia, she's kind of going jet setting all around, so it's harder to talk to her. But we try and talk as much as we can. But I think that we're just closer and I think we just all understand, as Ali put it, and it goes through my mind all the time, when is that other shoe going to drop? You are not promised tomorrow. And I know nobody is promised tomorrow, but our, our timeline has kind of increased a little bit towards that end.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:23] Speaker D: And. And so I think that, you know, you just need to be together as much as possible. And I know that we've gotten closer. We go fishing all the time and we do things all the time together. And that's been the greatest thing. The greatest thing.
[00:28:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
Ellie?
Yeah.
[00:28:45] Speaker E: I think that my mom's and my answers are probably pretty similar, I guess, to speak a little bit more individually to specifically my mom's and my relationship.
I leaned really heavily on my mom through my college experience. I was going through some. Some mental health struggles and a lot of homesickness. And so we already had a really strong foundation of kind of calling each other frequently and talking to each other about anything and everything. But when the tables turned and it became about mom's diagnosis, it just became all the more imperative to treat every day like an opportunity to spend time together.
And.
Yeah, so, I mean, we ran together when I was in college and even a couple of years into mom's diagnosis, that was something that we shared. And now we love sharing, going fishing together and going hiking together. And I just, I wonder if maybe we wouldn't have prioritized all of those moments, if things were different, that's not to say that I would have been completely out of the picture. But when you know that tomorrow's not guaranteed, every call is important, every picture is important, every meetup is important.
[00:30:05] Speaker C: So, yeah, for sure.
Julia.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Well, I really struck, you know, Hazel, by what you said about your daughters and you're going to see the wedding dresses, because I think our relationship over time.
I think one of your friends referred to us as the house of. Yes. It was like, you want to cook and bake in the kitchen and make a mess, do it right.
[00:30:26] Speaker C: Like, again.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: And I'm going to teach you how to clean up, because you need to know these things and how to. How to do that from beginning to end.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: And I would leave the room and like, these young kids, like, what do you mean your mom's not going to sit here?
Like, I'm right here if you need me. And that moment, you know, happens.
I think what's interesting, as we've evolved, there was a long time where we had found it very difficult to be away from each other. And I think you can share your version of that.
What's interesting is we are finally. I mean, I heard you say, you know, the comment about, like, starting to go through the teen angst and not what she's not saying out loud, but I think it's implied, is that she did not want to burden me with that. And so there was a lot of, I'm happy, I'm perfect, life's perfect, everything's fine.
And we're. We're past that now. Even though we're scared, we even can be mean to each other, you know, which I think is actually healthy. In.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: In.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: In some ways, we get over it very quickly. We're very much alike.
I know that sounds awful, but I will say to people that, you know, they'll always say, she's such a lovely girl. I'm like, yes. And just, just age appropriately pushing back on me enough that I am so happy about that. Because that.
[00:31:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Fear of her suppressing that was another weight on me. Yeah, I'm silly. But like.
[00:31:58] Speaker C: Well, it's almost like normal. What is normal? But it's almost like you're back to normal. There isn't this huge thing having your over your heads. You're able to just be you and have your relationship, which is great. Yeah.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: So, Maddie, I honestly, I. I really do agree with that. I. Since I was. I mean, when I was in preschool, I had to have the schedule of every single Day in preschool, safety pinned to my shirt, because I was like. And I. I would count down the minutes until when my mom would come and pick me up. And I was just so, like, rigidly sick to that schedule. And I think that was even prior to a diagnosis. I've always been really attached to the hip with my mom. And that only sort of drew us closer, not only in, like, I always wanted to be with my mom, but, like, I mean, she.
Not. I mean, she was already my best friend, but we really became, like, best friends in the sense where, like, you know, we would cheer each other, like. Like, I really hate this person right now, or, like.
Like, that kind of stuff. And it was just. I mean, it was awful. But then also. And I Will I say this with all the love in my heart. Like, I've always seen my mom as, like, a superhero and just the strongest woman I've ever met. And I still believe that. But having you go through cancer allowed me to see that. Like, my mom's a human, too. Like, she's, like, she's vulnerable.
And I think that that takes immense strength as a person, but I mean, even more as a mother to allow your children, to allow other people to see your weaknesses, to see a more vulnerable side of you. And so not only did it really fill my heart with more kindness and love and patience with my mom, but a lot more respect and admiration, because I. I really do hope one day to go through whatever I go through cancer, not to handle it with as much grace and strength.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: Wow.
That was all of you. I mean, this is really. This is great.
I'm wondering if any of you have anything else to share? Anything I haven't asked you about, specifically, whether it's for a child. You know, the child perspective, the parent perspective.
Anything I haven't asked you about, I'm going to leave this open. So go ahead and pipe up wherever.
[00:34:26] Speaker D: I think if it's possible to always tell your children the truth, they are much stronger than a lot of times you give them credit for, and they understand a lot more than you know.
And if it's at all possible, don't hide things and not tell them the truth. I think that they do better when they know the truth. They can adjust, and they deserve to know the truth just like everybody else. And they deserve to have the support that is available to them, the family, their friends, everybody. I just think that, you know, sometimes I think parents tell little black lies. And believe me, as a parent, I get it. You know, you're. You only do those Things to protect your children because you don't want to hurt them, because that kills you inside a little piece of your heart. It dies every time you see your child hurting. So I get it.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: But.
[00:35:29] Speaker D: With cancer, I think if, if at all possible, tell them the truth. And I just full heartedly believe that.
[00:35:38] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:35:38] Speaker E: Yeah, I'll pipe in on that and say that probably the most important gift of telling the truth to an older child is giving them the ability to have agency in their own reality.
Sugarcoating it doesn't. Doesn't do them any favors because then they don't really know what to believe and they don't really know how seriously to take the situation.
So 100% agree with, with what my mom said.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: So I'm gonna just jump on that.
And there's different variations of it, but telling the truth, whatever age they are, child to young adult, they know there is a bond in these relationships where they know before they've been told.
And so the longer it takes. I know you two were not in front of each other all the time, but you know, you said, Hazel, that Allie knew when you were in front of her and asked why you were sick. Right.
They are right there. And for us, the second piece I'd say to that to add on to that is allow your community to join you in the journey because it matters. And I have an only child. And when I think about.
I know we talk a lot about hockey, but the hockey community, we had her school, our church communities, and then my extended family community, which was huge.
But you know, the hockey family, when we let them in, when I was in the hospital, sent over cleaners to scrub the house from top to bottom so that when I got home, I was at less risk for infection.
Matt made my to go list. She shaved my head with me, came and picked out my wig, you know, and had them do a mohawk before they shaved the rest of it.
[00:37:29] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:37:29] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: The truth and letting them at their comfort level join you agency, like you said, Ali, to be part of it rather than any of it being frightening.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: I think. I mean, I really have so much respect and like special place in my heart for every person involved in a cancer diagnosis, be it a children, the patient, the parents, and hearing Allie and Hazel, hearing your family stories, like, I mean, really, I have so much respect for the amount of strength that both of you and your other daughter have had.
And I think that.
And I've always sort of said this, that having a cancer diagnosis and this is going off what my mom said about community is one of the worst things that a family can go through in their life. But it also really shows you the communities that you have surrounding you.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: And it is such like, again, and I'm pretty much just reiterating what you said, mom, but to see how many people cared and to see how many people were willing to be there for us, were willing to. Even people that I hadn't really. Even friendly classmates of mine I hadn't really been close with were dropping off dinners for us. And it was just. Yeah, it was amazing. It was so wonderful.
And I.
My heart just goes out to each and every member of each and every family that has to struggle with the things that we've struggled with.
[00:39:08] Speaker C: It is amazing what happens when we let people in and let. Let them help us, which I know that's not easy. I didn't find it easy either. But it's amazing what happens when. When you do.
Thank you all for sharing those thoughts. So my last question, of course, is very serious.
Marshmallows over a campfire? Slow and steady or flaming crispy?
I'm just going to go right to left. So, Hazel, you happen to be the one on my right.
[00:39:34] Speaker D: Slow and steady.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Julia, I'm sorry, but I gotta go with the flame and crispy.
[00:39:41] Speaker C: All right, we have one and one here.
Maddie.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: Flaming crispy.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: All right, Allie.
[00:39:48] Speaker E: Slow and steady.
[00:39:49] Speaker C: We have a time.
And that came out along family lines. I love it.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: But can you break the tie?
[00:39:58] Speaker C: You know, I usually try to go for. I will actually break it in the sense that I'm going to agree with both of you because I usually try and go first for slow and steady and end up with flaming crispy. So there it is.
Well, thank you all. I mean, this has been insightful. It's been inspirational, it's been encouraging.
I appreciate your honesty. Like you talked about, you guys showed, you demonstrated what that looks like, and I really appreciate it and I hope those of you listening took something away, whether you're the child or you are the parent in this case.
So thank you all for. For your honesty there and to those of you who are listening, until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
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