[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you in the campfires of hope, living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Hello everyone, this is Gail, aka Sunshine. And today we have Stephanie Lening joining us around the campfire. Stephanie, it is so good to have you with us.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: Thank you. It's nice and cozy in here by this.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: It sure is.
Well, I want to start by just asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from? Where do you live?
And one fun fact, I am originally.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: From Cincinnati, Ohio, born and raised. I went to Kentucky for college, majored in nursing. I moved to North Carolina after that, to Chicago after that, and now I have landed in Denver.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Yes. And a fun fact about me, let me think.
I have done four triathlons maybe.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Awesome. Yeah, that is amazing. Congratulations.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Very cool.
So the other part of your story we want to talk about is your cancer story. Okay, so when were you diagnosed? What symptoms did you have going into it? Treatment.
Lay it on us.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: I was working nights after I graduated school in North Carolina. And I had been up because I had worked a twelve hour shift the night before I was diagnosed. And I came home and I would work 312 hours shifts back to back. And it was my second twelve. I'd been up talking to my roommates the day after my shift and I had been making my dinner for the next night shift. And then I would go and take like a four hour nap before I went into work.
And my friends were having a party that night. I was talking to my roommate and her boyfriend, like, oh, I really want to call in sick to work. I don't want to go.
Stupid job.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: So inconvenient.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: It's so inconvenient. I mean, I like to pay rent on time and all that, but it really gets in the way of partying.
So my roommate came into my bedroom later that night and woke me up and she was like, why aren't you at work? And I was like, I don't have to work. Why are you waking me up? And she was like, my nickname is Flo. And she was like, flo, you've been talking all day about how you didn't want to go to work and you wanted to call in sick because whoever's having a party.
And I was like, Steph, I don't know what you're talking like, I don't have to work. Like, she's like, you're acting very weird. Come down to the kitchen and talk to me some more. So I went down and I had been defrosting some shrimp in the sinks for my dinner. And I was like, are you guys making shrimp for dinner? And they're like, you did that earlier today. And I was like, I don't remember. And I kept on looking at the clock and asking what time it was. It was two days before Christmas.
And I had also taken our other roommate, Susan to the airport earlier that day and dropped her off.
Looking around, I was like, where's Susan? She's like, oh, my God, we are going to the emergency room. And I was like, I'm just tired.
I just need to sleep a little bit more. It's my third twelve on. My mind's just exhausted. I'm just going to go back to bed. If I'm still weird tomorrow, we can go. She's like, you're getting in the car or I'm calling your mother. And I was like, okay, let's go, let's go.
So we went to the hospital where I worked to the ER and talked to the ER intake nurse, and she brings me back right away, and I was like, this isn't a good sign.
And then they take me back to the scanner, the CT scanner, pretty quickly. And I was also, huh, that's not a good sign. And when I started nursing, I worked in the Neuroicu. So I knew some guys in the scanning room.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:35] Speaker C: And I came out and I'm like, a sarcastic, very dry sense of humor person. And so I came out and I look at the tech and I'm like, so what? There's nothing in my head. And he just had this deadpan look, and I was like, crap. So I spent all night in the ER. This probably a resident who had, like three marbles for brains comes in and he's like, it's like three in the morning. He's like, so you have a brain tumor? And I was like, what?
He's like, you don't act very surprised. Did you know about it? And I was like, no, dude, I think I'm in shock.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Wow. That was how you found out?
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, just like that. And he was like, we're going to admit you to the hospital, and then neurosurgery will come see you tomorrow. I was like, okay. So I called my mom and we used to prank my parents in college while we were drinking that we were, like, in jail, know, with the cops or something. Had, like, never anything, like, terrible. But usually we're in jail or with the cops. And so it was like three or four in the morning in Cincinnati, and I call, and I'm like, my dad answers the phone. He's like, hello, dad, I'm fine, but I'm in the emergency room, and they just told me I have a brain tumor. He's like, Stephanie, this is not a funny joke. And I was like, not joking. He was like, that happened, like, three more times. And I was like, I'm telling you, it's not a joke. He's like, here, talk to your mother. Kiss me to my mom. And she does the same thing. Like, this is not funny. Where have you been? Drinking? It's Wednesday night.
Who do you want to talk to? Do you want to talk to the doctor? You want to talk to the nurses? Like, your pick? You tell me. She's like, yeah, I swear to God, if this is a joke, I'm going to kill you.
It's not a joke. So she flew down the next day and packed. I was totally in.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: She.
[00:08:01] Speaker C: We were going to drive back to Cincinnati because a friend of ours, brother, is a neurosurgeon. And so she had called them, and they had gotten stuff together in the background on her drive down. And so I packed, like, two T shirts and maybe three pairs of underwear, like, not having a clue how long I was going to be gone for, right? And drove home and got treatment. Had surgery in the standard, I think it's like six weeks of radiation in Temadar, which is the typical standard treatment for aggressive brain tumor. And I was 24 years old, and that was a big change in my life. But my job could not have been more supportive. So I called my charge nurse, who I was a good friend of, and she came down right away with four other girls from our unit, and they were just like, all in my room, like, what can we do?
What do you need?
So supportive and so great. And of course, my roommate and her boyfriend were still there all night. Some of our other friends had come to the hospital.
I've just been very lucky with all.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: The support that I. Yeah, it sounds like it was like, boom, boom, boom. You found out you had a tumor. Okay, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. So there was no time at that point for second opinions.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: You just kind of boom, okay. Because they thought my confusion was because I had a seizure in my sleep, because I had no other symptoms before. Like, not one.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:45] Speaker C: I've thought a lot about it. Like, could I have had some small seizures that I just didn't know were seizures? And then something happened, but I can't think of anything. And so they assume the tumor had finally grown to a size where it was big enough to cause an issue. And I must have had a seizure. And then Steph came in and woke me up in what you call post ictal, where you're very confused and disoriented after seizures. And so they felt it was now causing an issue, and I had to go into surgery. So we got home. That was like, December 23, I got diagnosed, and then January 10, I had surgery.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Christmas.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Merry Christmas. So you did that whole first round. Surgery, treatment, radiation, and then you're done.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: And then I was done.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Did life go back to normal?
[00:10:51] Speaker C: Life went back to normal, pretty much. I moved back to Charlote for about a year and then just needed a change. So my roommate and I moved to Chicago.
And fast forward 13 years later. I had, like, a spot when I was 30 that they definitely thought was a recurrence. And I'd worked with a group of neurosurgeons then. And so speaking of Getting second opinions, I was showing it to all seven of them. And the thing about it is, they're all different. They all have their own opinions on it. So they would give me an opinion, and it would be like, I think you do this, and then they'd show it to the next one. I think you should do this, which is totally different, and then you do different. And in my experience, you just go with what you research, what settles in your soul and feels right with your gut, and also who you feel most comfortable with as a physician.
I don't know. I think that's a big part of it, too. If you don't trust your doctor, especially if they're going to be operating on.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: You, that's a problem.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: That would be a problem with me.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: At the time. They found the lesions. Nothing was done right there. Then it moved. Nothing was done right?
[00:12:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: The plan was for me to go back and do chemotherapy.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:34] Speaker C: My gut told me that spot was not real. It was artifact or something in the MRI. And I was like, I just don't believe this is true. Something in my gut was not there. So I had never done fertility treatment preservation, because when I was 24, I didn't have time.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:56] Speaker C: And I should have asked about it when I was in that ten plus years of remission, but I just never did because I was like, do I want kids? I don't know.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: And then I decided, yes, before I blast my body with chemo a second time, I want to do it. So I did egg retrieval, and then I got scanned again. And the day I was supposed to start treatment, the nurse practitioner came out and was like, stop. It's gone.
I knew it wasn't there.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:30] Speaker C: Yeah. So then fast forward.
And then in July of 2001, my oncologist would always come in, and I'd be like, waiting for my scan results, which people get scanxiety. It's a big thing.
And I did as well for the first five years. And then I was like, this is a bunch of wasted energy to worry about this every time I get myself all worked up and nothing's there. So I'm going to take this new Zen approach, and I'm going to tell myself there's nothing to worry about until I know there's something to worry about. And that's how I'm going to approach it from now on. And I did. And so my oncologist would always come in and he'd be like. I'd be like, what's the scanners all. He's like, you're so boring. Like, nothing's on there.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: The only time being boring is a.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Compliment is good, right? Yeah. So fast forward to June of 2021. I was at home for a family trip and at my mom's, and a couple of our family was coming over, and then my brother's in laws were coming over for, like, a cookout.
And I had had a scan before I left, and my oncologist was supposed to call me, I don't know, like, 01:00 in the afternoon, and he is notoriously, like, hours late. So I'm waiting, waiting, waiting for this call. People are pulling in the driveway, and finally he calls me, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to get the boring talk. I'll go in, I'll mingle, have a drink, have fun tonight, whatever.
He's like, how have you been feeling? And I was like, oh, God, yeah.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: This isn't the same.
[00:15:26] Speaker C: How have I been feeling? He was like, I feel okay. I've been tired.
I've had one or two more seizures lately. I'm having some word finding problems, whatever it was, right? He's like, well, I ask because there's something there. And I was like, what do you mean there's something there? So we talk about it and fast forward because of my spot, I was like, let's wait another month and see if it grows or anything. So then we wait, I think, one or two more months. And I went back to Chicago because by that time, I had moved to Denver, somewhere in between. I think in the end of 2020, I moved to Denver. And so I had gone back to Chicago for the next MRI and walk in the office, and he's like, snow. Better. I took the liberty of inviting their neurosurgeon to your appointment today. It's like, oh, God, it's that good?
Yeah, we've got to do something within weeks, not months.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Was it in the same area as the first time?
[00:16:36] Speaker C: Luckily, yes. So when you have a brain tumor, when they do surgery, they cut it out and try and get all the margins, the tumor margins. So you're left with this hole in your brain that just fills with fluid. And luckily, it just grew back into itself.
It did grow out some more, but the bulk of it was mainly on the border. So that's great. Very lucky that way. And so I had my second craniotomy in August of 22, and we had talked before surgery about doing another round of radiation and more chemo, and my oncologist had said, it's been so long since you did your last radiation, I think it would be safe to do it. Like, your brain doesn't forget, but it forgives a little bit. So I think we'd be safe enough that it's been this far apart from the last time. And so he said, but that's something you could talk more in depth to the radiation oncologist about. So he set up an appointment with me just to talk to the radiation oncologist, and I did. And he was of the opposite opinion, that if I did more radiation, I would have deficits based on where my tumor was. And it's kind of close to my speech pathway and my left side, my left arm and leg movement.
So I was like, well, that doesn't sound great. And then my sister is a really good researcher, and she's a biology major, so she's also like a honey badger.
She's a very good advocate. And so she is always researching things, looking up the latest and greatest. And she called University of San Francisco and Dana Farber and had got messages to their neurosurgeons and neuroncologists, and then the neurosurgeon at UCSF had mentioned something about doing radiation again, and he said, well, let me have you talk to our radiation oncologist. So I talked to their radiation oncologist and Dana Farber, and they were all three in the same.
We. They wouldn't recommend doing it again because I would have some kind of a deficit.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Deficit. Well, there is definitely a benefit of giving a second, third, and fourth felt much. I would guess that you felt much more comfortable about your decision, knowing that you now had three professionals.
[00:19:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Who were all on the same course. And so my sister found this neuroncologist at Dana Farmer that I ended up seeing for treatment for a trial drug there. And she lives in which, like, an hour north of Boston.
And so we went to this appointment. He's like, yeah, I think this would be good for you. And so I started the trial, and I had to stay locally for three months. So I lived with my sister and her family for three months. God love her with my mother, and we are all one big happy family.
I can't say enough about how wonderful that's amazing is with support, I could do a whole podcast on it on your family. And so my sister would get up at, like, 05:00 a.m.
Drive us to Boston in Boston traffic, sit there for an hour or two for my appointments, then drive us back in Boston traffic. And not once did she ever complain.
Have two extra miles to feed. Whole thing. Never complained once.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: That's amazing.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Yeah. And now she's back doing it again.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: So that went on for.
[00:21:22] Speaker C: That went on for. I took that trial drug for nine months. I stopped it August of 22. It was pretty challenging to tolerate for my body. I think people did okay on it, but the protocol for that trial, and they're all different. But this one, I had to go to Dana Farber once a month. So I had to know, take a day off of work, fly across the country from Denver to Boston once a month, get an EKG, blood work.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Something else. I don't know. There was one other test they had to do before they could give me a refill on the drugs, and it was a phase one trial, so they're just beginning to test it, and you get to have all the side effects and whatnot. So one of my biggest side effects was pretty bad anemia. So I had to have super tired and had to have three blood transfusions.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Oh, gosh.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: The trial. And then it started to affect my eyes. Like, my eyes, like your vision? Yeah. My vision was a lot blurrier. I had really bad sensitivity to light. And when that happened, I could barely open my eyes.
I went to the eye doctor, and they're like, you have all these spots in your eyes. This has anything to do with the drug? I'm like, I don't know. So turns out it did.
And so my cornea were inflamed from the drug, and so I went to a corneal specialist and did a bunch of drops, and luckily, that's all been resolved. But they stopped the trial drug because at higher doses, it was causing high toxicity in people to go blind.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: You don't need to add that to the mix.
[00:23:37] Speaker C: I don't.
So you finished?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: That was, what?
[00:23:42] Speaker C: August. August 22. And I've just been being monitored with serial MRIs every two months.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: And so I've been fine. And then I had my last scan October 15, as in a week ago, a week and a half ago, whenever that was. And they have found some more growth.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: In the same area.
[00:24:16] Speaker C: In the same area. I think it's a bit deeper than what it was, but cancer just sucks.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: It sucks. Absolutely.
[00:24:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
Seems to always come back and bite you in the ass one way or another. In the butt.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Now what?
[00:24:35] Speaker C: We don't have a plan yet. I told them I will not do a surgery. I refuse to do a third.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: And why is that for you? I mean, it sounds horrible, but I am curious what you're.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Sucks having your skull cracked open and your brain played around with for multiple hours. And my tumor is just to the point where they have to mess with my jaw a bit to get to it. And so when I wake up, I can't really open my jaw. And for the next week or month, it just is really bothersome.
And because of the radiation, initially, they had a hard time closing the incision because my skin is so fragile, and so they had to leave the stitches in for three weeks, which skin starts to grow over them, and when they take them, it's not comfortable.
Sorry.
I'm a nurse, so I don't think.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: No.
Now, the picture of why you don't want to do surgery is very clear.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Coming back to second opinions, have you?
[00:25:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Working on second opinions.
I've already reached out to my old oncologist and getting the images sent to them. My sister, the honey badger, is back in.
She.
We've talked to MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering, and Duke, like most of the top brain tumor centers, and there's no clinical trials at University of Colorado, where my oncologist is. And so they would be doing radiation and oral chemotherapy again, which I've done. And based off what the three previous radiation oncologists had discussed with me.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Doesn't sound like it.
[00:26:52] Speaker C: I don't know that I'm, like, really would. Like I said, I would think deeply about it and consider it as a treatment since I'm not open to surgery.
But we're looking into clinical trials. Luckily, I have a friend who is in charge of putting clinical trials together with J. J. So she's been sending me some first. I feel like the first time, and this is like a rant on the side, but I feel like the first time you go through this, you just go through it and you do it and you do what your doctors tell you, because they are your doctors, and you think they're smart. This is their specialty. They're telling you what's the best. And they are. They absolutely are. But I think it's always helpful just to get somebody else's view and opinion on it to make sure they are on the same track and there's nothing new or anything.
If you at all have any hesitancy about what your doctor is telling you, get a second opinion. And if your doctor is not okay with you getting a second opinion, you need to run out of the office.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. We're all human, right?
[00:28:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:13] Speaker B: Even though these doctors have studied, they're brilliant.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: Right? Right.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: I don't even want to say we all make mistakes, but we all need another point of view, right? We all need another.
More information, right?
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: I'm of the school of thought that the more information, the better. I feel like there's a lot of people who are the complete opposite, like, stick my head in the sand. I'm just going to do whatever they tell me, and that's what it's going to be, and that's fine. And a girl from camp had colon cancer that spread to her liver, and she had a colostomy, and her doctor was just kind of like, this is all we can do for you. And she was, like, just accepting it and waiting.
That's her fate. And we said to her, you should go seek other physicians.
Maybe they know of a different technique that they do there and not at this other hospital that they can fix. Like, they can surgically remove these things and reverse your colostomy. Because her doctor didn't tell her that was a possibility.
So anyway, she did. She sought out another physician, and she just had surgery to reverse her colostomy and remove all the tumors from her liver. Amazing her in the hospital, and she was so happy and hopeful, and it was great, so great to see.
I feel like if someone tells you no is the point, don't accept it. Go find another no. And if you keep getting those and it's a no. Right, fortunately.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: So all of this is very fresh and raw for you. I mean, this literally just happened in between numbers two and three. You went to camp, right?
[00:30:34] Speaker C: I did go to camp.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Is there anything that you took from camp that is helping in this new world that you have found yourself in?
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I think camp was really great for me. I tend to not deal with things. I'm a shover. I'm a pusher right there with you. Push everything down until you just put your head down and go and get through it.
Do what you have to do, and then maybe you deal with it later, maybe you don't.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: And I'm not a very emotional person, and so that's served me well for 40 years.
Camp.
I have a lot of friends, unfortunately, who have had cancer in the past and have done other cancer camps. And I always wanted to go, but I had aged. And so then I had met the Pharaohs at the Chicago Denver Marathon.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:31:43] Speaker C: And I was talking to Mama Lou and she was, you know, you should sign up for camp. And I was like, am I too old? And she was like, no, there's no age limits. And I was like, I'll sign up for camp.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:31:59] Speaker C: And so I signed up for camp, and I thought it was going to be, like, much longer period of when I'd be going.
And I didn't really have any expectations, but I went. And I was like, it was so therapeutic because fuzzy the first night was, like, around the campfire, like the literal campfire.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Literally. Yeah.
[00:32:27] Speaker C: Was Just like, it's easier. People say it's easier here because people just. You can cut through the crap. Like, people just get it because they've done it. They understand they've been where you are. And it is easier to open up and talk about things. And I don't do that a lot, especially with my family, because I don't want to scare them and I feel like I want to protect them, but it's not always the best choice.
So it was very therapeutic to me to open up and talk to people who had been through it before and had felt the same way and could relate and respond with meaningful advice. Not that people who have not had cancer don't have meaningful advice. Everyone has meaningful advice, but they're coming.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: From the same place of having heard those words, you have cancer or it's come back or that they've gone through the chemo or whatever. Yeah.
[00:33:41] Speaker C: And they're like, oh, did you have this you're like, yes, I did. And you have that immediate connection and camaraderie. So that was really fun. I loved being at camp and sleeping in the cabins, and it reminded me of camp as a kid.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: I get to be a kid again for a week, and I just loved. There was a lot of meaningful talk, but then also the. Of the laughter and also the daily adventures that you just don't typically do. And I was very nervous to do one of the adventures because I have epilepty. Could have not gone well. It could have not gone well if I had a seizure, which I was positive I wouldn't. But you never know. Things, crazy things happen. And so I was very impressed by the way that the medical team and Mamalu and Fuzzy and wingman and everyone took care of not only me, but everyone. And there was a girl on our trip who got sick during one of the adventures, and we all just banded together and did what we needed to do to get her back to a healthy state. And the camaraderie was just like, great. And now I have a new family of 25 friends who I feel like I could call at any time and cry to or ask advice from.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And I can imagine just knowing that they're all there, whether or not you've reached out to them yet, because this is so fresh. I imagine that's huge.
[00:35:37] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: Just having that system.
[00:35:41] Speaker C: Yeah. It's a whole nother support system.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: That's awesome.
Well, is there anything else that I haven't asked you about that you would want to share with someone listening?
[00:35:51] Speaker C: Find a therapist. If you don't have one.
It's not taboo anymore. They're very helpful.
You can talk to them about anything. I always was too proud to have one, and in the last three to five years, I've gone through the worst years of my life, even outside of cancer. And I think it would have been a lot harder to deal with without someone just outside of family and friends who always will take your side and always will support you. But it's kind of nice to be like, well, did you feel like you did anything wrong in that situation?
Like, good perspective, and it takes. True, it does take a while to find a therapist that you jive with and you mesh well with. So if the first one doesn't work, don't be discouraged. Just see who else is in your network or something.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Excellent.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: Very helpful.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Completely agree.
[00:37:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: Well, last question. Marshmallows over a campfire. Slow and steady or flaming crispy?
[00:37:14] Speaker C: Oh, flaming crispy.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Right on.
I love it.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: Burn them up.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Well, Stephanie, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing that very fresh and heavy news. And we'll be wishing you the best as you go forward and figure out how to tackle this.
[00:37:36] Speaker C: I've always, this is a funny side note, named my tumors. And so my first one was Earl because Earl had to die. He had a theme song. The second one was Karen because Karen of Karen's the mean, uppity Woman. And now they've had a baby in my head, and I'm thinking of a name. So if any listeners have any suggestions.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: I love it. All right, so we're going to think of Earl and Karen's baby's name. Child's name for your right.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: Yes, I'm open. Thank you.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: All right. Well, thank you, Stephanie, very much. And thank you to everyone listening. And until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
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[00:38:57] Speaker C: By that time through the night, with some ghost America police still on our side, the family man's right.
We will rise once again.
