[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experian's mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of hope, living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. This is Gail, aka Sunshine. Welcome to an episode of keeping it real on the Campfires of Hope podcast, where we'll dig into the mental and emotional highs and lows of cancer survivorship. Today we have Cam, aka coach, joining us around the campfire. Cam, it is so good to have you. Thank you for joining us.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: Very good. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: All right, well, let's dive in. Let's. I just want to learn a little bit about you. Tell us about your background, where you're from, and please include one fun fact.
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Yeah, cool. Well, it's great to be here.
As you may guess, I'm not originally from the US. I grew up in Sydney, um, around 50 years ago, and came to the US in 2000, actually, to coach rowing, thus the. The camp name, coach and perfect. Racing DC for a bunch of years and then came out to San Diego, where I live now.
I came out in 2009 and got married with my wife in 2014, so we're about to celebrate ten years.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Awesome. Congratulations and thank you.
[00:02:20] Speaker C: And we live on a little farm, a little acre here with three horses and a bunch of other animals just outside of San Diego.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Oh, lovely.
What is one fun fact?
[00:02:32] Speaker C: Um. What is one fun fact, other than spending most of my time hanging out with our animals, cleaning up after them, I'm lucky enough to have been to four Olympics as a rob.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Okay, that's amazing. Which ones did you go to?
[00:02:48] Speaker C: First one was Athens, and they went Athens, then London. Sorry, Beijing, then London, and then Rio, so.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Okay, that is very cool. That's the first. I have not had someone say that.
Okay. And the thing that brings us here is that we both had cancer. Right. Tell us a little about your cancer experience. Just when you were diagnosed, what your diagnosis was. Treatment. Just kind of a quick cancer brief.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: Yeah, it was actually in the middle of that whole Olympic thing, April of 2010. So in between Beijing and London, I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, stage three c, while I was here in San Diego. And basically all that was going on was I had a bit of a cough and one of my buddies said, hey, you got to go and get that checked out. Well, it was more than a cough. And that led to twelve weeks of chemo and then a bunch of surgeries with orchiectomy, thoracotomy, a few other bits and pieces they played around with.
And then I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer six months after.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Oh, my.
Different primary.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: Different primary. And then a third thyroid cancer in 2011. So it was basically back to back to back.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: And then I had a relapse of germ cell cancer in my lung just recently, in 2021.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: And what is germ cell? So is the germ cell related to the testicular cancer?
[00:04:24] Speaker C: Yeah, they think it's some version of a teratoma that just turned into another one of these bloody things.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: I want to ask two questions. One, a cough. Was that because it had already spread to your lungs in the first place?
[00:04:42] Speaker C: Yeah, not really sure about that, but yeah, it had spread to my lung. That first go round, it was dry cough. And after the fact, the, some of the symptoms of night sweats and weight loss and appetite, they became clearer. But the most obvious symptom was the cough.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So you relapsed in 2021, which you just mentioned. How did that first, how did you know, like, how did that come about? And then I want to know, more importantly, how did that hit you? That must have been, I mean, that's what, ten, almost eleven years?
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Or it was eleven years after the first diagnosis. So tell me about that.
[00:05:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it was sadly a similar kind of thing. I actually went for a run and that didn't feel very good. So again, another friend of mine said, you know, you just, things just don't seem right. And I'd had a bit of a dry cough, obviously in the middle of pandemic.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: I had developed this habit of going on mute every time I was coughing. So I'd sort of do this and then go back off mute. And because I didn't want it to be disruptive, I didn't, you know.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:07] Speaker C: And anyway, someone that I was on frequent calls was said, hey, go and have a look. And anyway, I had a remote visit and my primary care basically said, turn your head, cam, and cough. And I went. And she said, how quickly can you get here?
[00:06:21] Speaker B: And, wow, she could tell from that.
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Oh, man. No, I don't. This again.
So. So, yeah, it, um.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: So was that your first thought? I don't want to do this again. Was there anger, fear, sadness?
[00:06:41] Speaker C: Like the first. I don't have time for this shit. Yeah, I got, I got other things to do. You know?
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:47] Speaker C: Um, I think the difference first time around was there was a lot of denial. Like, I don't feel sick, there's nothing wrong with me, there's something wrong with the diagnosis. The second time, you know, the relapse, it was.
It was, uh.
I don't want to put my wife through all of this. I don't want to do it. I know I'm going to get through it. But that was the, like, it was a real.
It was a real ego battle. And probably the biggest thing about the relapse was not the chemo. I had to do another thoracotomy and they went into the lungs and they found a lot of scar tissue and it ended up being what should have been a very short operation, ended up being a six hour thing.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Instead of spending a couple of days in hospital, I spent three weeks. And I was a nightmare. I was an absolute nightmare in hospital because. Because, I mean, wait to get out of there.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: So you are a nightmare to the. To the nurses.
[00:07:49] Speaker C: Just a night. I just didn't want to be there. I didn't. Just wanted to get out of there. And it was more just, what's the plan? Why is this taking so long? And when can I just get back to some kind of normal?
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: So that was the toughest part, for sure. Well.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: What, so you were single the first time?
[00:08:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Now you're married. How did that add to the mental, emotional impact?
[00:08:22] Speaker C: Yeah. My sister was my, my, my primary caregiver. First go round.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: And so she'd spent enough time with me to know the, the best and the worst of me. So it was a very, you know, that was a different deal. And she actually came over from Australia.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Oh, on the second time.
[00:08:43] Speaker C: Yeah. And literally was on the first plane out of Australia because Australia was in such rigid lockdown during. During COVID At that time.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:52] Speaker C: The second go round, you know, with. With Justine, my wife, you know, it was.
It was just day by day because I didn't know what was going to happen. And I had one unfortunate, um, turn during the first round of chemo where I ended up in the ER, just with dehydration and the side effects of, of chemo. And that was the first time of all of it. I could see in her face is like, oh, my God, this is real. Because in the ER, during all of COVID So we were literally walk. You know, they were wheeling me through the ER with people in the, in the, in the. In the hallway because the. The ER was so packed. So, you know, that that added a dimension to it. And at that time, I was like, that was probably the most scared I'd ever been through the whole cancer thing. Because I'm like, something else might happen, because, I mean, something that I'm not really sure why I'm in here. I just know I need something. So the. The technology has come along such a long way, you know, from eleven years gap treatment. That's extraordinary. But at the same time, the mind game that we all have to go through to figure out, okay, what's the most important thing for me to focus on right now so I can move on to whatever's next.
It's not forever, but it feels like, as I've always said, there's something about the clocks in a hospital. They seem to run a lot lower, you know?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: They sure do. Yes. So what was it for you that got you through?
How did you get through that relapse and all the fear that went with it? Going back to the ER, being in the midst of COVID all of that.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: I honestly, and I think a lot of us have talked about looking forward to the next doctor visit, another check in to see how things got better. I think the small little goals were definitely the things that became like little, just little adventures, I call them, you know, just, okay, what's the adventure between now and the next visit? To be able to check in and say it's working or it's not. I think breaking it down to the smallest little steps possible was, honestly, me going back to, you know, my athletic days of thinking, well, if I think about running this marathon, it's, well, I wouldn't even start. It's just, can I get to the next term? You know? Yeah, you know, breaking it down from that to okay, the next meal in hospital or just something to look forward to was, you know, the. I guess that's hope of just trying to keep that energy rather than the next visit is the potential to be bad news. And there were some bad terms, but. But just literally breaking it down, I think, is always been a. A bit of a go to for me.
[00:11:51] Speaker D: I hope you enjoy this episode of our Campfires of Hope podcast. Here at Epic Experience, we make it our goal to serve the cancer community through our collective programs such as this podcast, our week long adventure camps, regional programs across the country, and thrive VR, a custom virtual reality experience benefiting patients in cancer centers. If you would like to be a part of our community of supporters, please go to epicexperience.org and click donate.
Thank you for listening to campfires of hope, stories of cancer with gratitude. Wingman, also known as Colin Farrow, executive director of Epic Experience. Epic Experience is a registered 501 C three organization.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Well, and using the word adventure. Yeah, right. Looking at it as an adventure, which in everyday life, an adventure is something we look forward to because there's going to be some fun or maybe, you know, some excitement. But at least framing it that way, I would think would help the mindset of getting through this, because you have to go through it, right?
[00:12:55] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I think language matters, but also doing things that give me some kind of spring in my step, you know, and even work. I didn't completely disconnect work. First round, I finished my PhD, which is the.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:13:14] Speaker C: But it was an outlet, you know, it was something for me to do while sitting there in the chair or not being able to sleep at night. So the next go round, there was a lot of, you know, really bad tv programs or good tv programs, you know, shows, Ted, lasso, all of these funny things that came out during COVID But. But, you know, I think there's no. There's no secrets there. Just really finding something that. That really. That you look forward to.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
So what advice would you give to someone else who has been told it's back, basically?
[00:13:52] Speaker C: Definitely the one step at a time, and it doesn't matter how small that is, that can be. Looking at the little victories, you know, crawling to the bathroom. You made it to the bathroom because there's nothing glorious about that.
I think, for the relapse, I'd been through it before, and that was helpful and sometimes a bit of an obstacle, but knowing that, that if things go right, there is a bright side to this. So there is some benefit to having been through it before, but also knowing that it's going to be different. So the dangers are sort of overthinking of, oh, my God, it's going to be worse than, you know, it's going to take longer. But. But I think probably more than anything else, and I've learned this maybe from talking to others more than anything else, of surrounding yourself with. With good people and people, because I think sometimes I just wanted to do it on my own. And handling that call, that text of cam, what can I do sometimes? Was, yeah, you just have five minutes. Just have a chat about anything, but.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Do not ask me how I feel because I'm going to tell you I'm good. Thanks. How are you exactly about the weather or the football or anything but cancer.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Absolutely.
So you're three years out from your relapse is the thought, when is it going to come back? Is it going to come back? Is that part of your daily, weekly, monthly mindset? Or is it something you've been able to kind of put behind you?
[00:15:27] Speaker C: Um, I actually think it's a bit of both. I think. I think what I've learned from this one is that, that I'm going to have a lifelong relationship with cancer, and that that sucks.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: It does.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: But. But that's. I very careful about not owning it. It's not my cancer.
But at the same time.
Yeah, there are days where it's like, what would, what would I do if it were to come back?
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:00] Speaker C: Or to hear those words again? And I think, tackle it if it happens. But at the same time, there's, you know, on the good days, there's a resilience to say, I will bring it. If it's gonna come back, bring it. Let's just do this shit again and figure out how to. But to me, the bigger trap is, why does it happen? And I think that's the dangerous question, because it is the little kid in looking at the sky saying, why is it blue? And you just, you never come up with an answer.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: You know, and so, I mean, I should have learned that one as a little kid. My mother died of breast cancer when I was ten, so, you know, this. It just changes shape. And I would much prefer to have.
Be the one having cancer then to be the caregiver, because I think our caregivers are like, I agree, they're the unsung heroes in this whole, whole story. And for all the people that have cared for us, I think that's what breaks my heart more than anything else about the cancer experience.
[00:17:14] Speaker B: Well, and you have been on both sides, and there's. I think there's a certain hopelessness being on the side of the caregiver. Right. Especially as a kid, if you're watching your mom, there's nothing you can do, whereas if it's happening to you, you can at least be the one who says, okay, I'm going to go on this, quote, adventure to the next appointment.
[00:17:31] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: I'm going to take the next treatment, or, you know, whatever it happens to be.
Well, what, what do you think has been your biggest victory on a personal level? Going through, I mean, you've been through it four times, right? The original two thyroids and then a relapse.
Did you have any aha. Moments, um, along the way?
[00:17:55] Speaker C: Um, well, I think the biggest victory actually was, ironically, at my worst at the lowest point, 18 months in, is when I met what my wife. So if there's. If there's anything good that came out of cancer, for me, at least.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: That's. That's definitely, you know, by far the biggest victory, I think. Aha. Moments, you know, in. In. To expand on that, I have this. This. This metaphor of standing too close to a painting, and the further you get away from it, the clearer it becomes.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: I think that perspective is a. Is a. Is a really important one, because there are times when you're in the middle of it, you just don't know what's going on. How do you feel? I just. I genuinely. I don't know how I feel. And I think that's one that we all can resonate with on some level.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:45] Speaker C: One other person says, how do you feel? Well, on one level, it's. I don't want to talk about it. But on the other, they're asking because they genuinely don't know what we're going through. So how do we find the words in the right time? I think, is another one of. And I've tried and I've heard this from a couple of people through epic, of the power of sharing our stories with other people. And sometimes that's not. Maybe in words like this, it may be true art or through music or through other, other means, but. But to me, the power of sharing the story and a big shout out to big hoss on that one. Cause when he sat me down and shared that, that shocked me. That moved me to the core of just if we can help one other person by telling the story. And I genuinely think if he hadn't.
If that message from him hadn't have landed, I don't think we would have been doing this. We wouldn't be having this conversation, because I not spoken about this very much at all.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: So, it was a conversation with big Haas that really encouraged you to start sharing your own story?
[00:19:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: That's amazing. I love it. Thank you, big Hoss. We've had him on the podcast, and I think that's true. I can relate to that. I didn't talk about it for years, but you never know who you're not reaching, right? Who needs to hear it?
Well, thank you for sharing your story, because I'm sure there are people who have experienced testicular cancer and relapse and found a good relationship or a spouse in the midst of it. I mean, there are so many ways that they could relate to your story.
Is there anything else that you would want to share with someone listening, whether it's someone who's had testicular cancer or thyroid cancer or a relapse in particular, anything I haven't specifically asked you about but you would want to share.
[00:20:38] Speaker C: I would just say reach out to someone that you care about right now. Don't wait. Listening to this right now, this is a special group. It's a special community.
And I think that taking the time for us to build this community is so important.
And I'm just. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to connect, to talk to, you know, to. To you, sunshine, because I think this is. This is a reflection of just the amazing group of people. Absolutely.
That this community represents. So, yeah, touching. Touching others with just. It doesn't even have to be anything other than, hey, I was just thinking of you. I think that's. That. That, to me, is what I think this is all about.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. Because a lot of times it's not how you're feeling. Like you said, that can be such a confusing question. But just to know someone's thinking about you, that is huge. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for going to epic.
We're wishing you the best as you continue on your journey.
And to those of you who are listening, thank you for keeping it real with us. Until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires, of living beyond cancer. For more information about epic experience and our programs or, or to donate, please visit our
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[00:22:42] Speaker C: Nervous mind police still are not family men who we will rise once again close.
