Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lu, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of Hope Living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment.
Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. This is Gail, AKA Sunshine. Today we have Phil Bauman joining us around the campfire. We're honored to have Phil join us and share his story and perspective as a Colangio carcinoma survivor. So, Phil, welcome. It's so good to have you.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: It's great to be here.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: So, to start with, if you can just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, your family, your career, and I always ask people to include one fun fact.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Okay. I live up in the northeast Georgia mountains, real close to a little German town called Helen, Georgia, which is a lot of people have heard about.
And I've been married for 43 years. I have two wonderful children. My son has three children, and my daughter has her first child two years ago.
So I have four grandchildren, and they're the love of my life.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Awesome. I love it. And fun fact. Are you. Are you.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: I think I'll use this. When I drove high school school bus. When I was in high, I grew up in South Carolina, and students drove the school bus.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: And I. And I picked up kids 1st through 12th grade all on one bus. And my junior and senior year in high school, I drove the school bus.
Wow.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: I've driven a bus. That's not a small feat. So that is pretty. I like that. That's a very fun fact.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Minimum wage, and it was a way to make money and go to school.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: Good for you.
Wow.
Okay, so what brings us here is cancer. So that's why I want to go next is give us kind of a overview of your diagnosis story, when you were diagnosed, kind of how it happened, and then maybe, you know, a brief summary of your surgery and treatment decisions and things like that.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Okay.
Actually, I started off as a caregiver in March of 2020, which was right before the whole country shut down. My wife got diagnosed with breast cancer, and so we were both devastated over that. And we were doing virtual meetings, and so I was the note taker. And she was going to have a lumpectomy, but it got put off. But about three weeks before that lump technomy. We Went on a camping trip. And then I noticed that my urine had changed and I knew something was probably up. And we got home and I came. Went to the urgent care. They sent me straight to the hospital, told me how yellow I was and everything.
Long story short, two weeks later, I was diagnosed with cholangiocarcinoma on a Friday at about 2:00'. Clock.
I had been in the hospital for over a week by myself, because you could have no family, no visitors, no nothing.
And so we just talked on a phone and my wife just. I put it on speakerphone and she talked to the doctors that way. But on a. They let her come in on that Friday at 2:00'. Clock. And then the.
The story was I had it. There were only the. When I got diagnosed and they told me what I had.
Calangiocarcinoma. The doctor said, there's only two doctors that I would recommend doing a surgery that I think you're eligible for in Georgia. And the problem is I have to get one of them to accept you as a patient to get transferred from this hospital to that one without checking out.
And she stayed until about 8 o' clock that night. She said, I got a doctor to accept you.
And then I go, I get transferred to Atlanta. And on Monday morning at 11 o', clock, I go through a 7 1/2 hour liver resection.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Surgery.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: And so for. For those who may be listening and don't know, basically we're talking about bile duct cancer.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Cancer, yeah. That's what most people know it.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Right. So did they. They took out most of your liver?
[00:05:32] Speaker A: 60 of my liver. And he was very happy with his margins and all that. But he did say I had. He had checked 10 lymph nodes and I had two nodes that were positive.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: So that he was going to give me four weeks to go home, get as strong as I could, and then I would start chemo and radiation.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: And you did all that.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: And I did that four weeks.
And I did, I did. Four weeks later, I started. Did like two treatments of chemo, kind of. The other neat thing about this cancer journey is my wife had her lumpectomy a week after my surgery.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: She.
And. But we live 25 miles from the nearest bigger town where, where the hospital is and all that.
So she also had to go through radiation. So we went through radiation together.
Oncology, radiologist. He scheduled us. So when we came down, she went in one room, I went into the room and we did our radiation together.
And she finished a little earlier than me. But she waited until I finished and we rang the bell together.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: That is amazing. Talk about taking in sickness and in health to a whole new level.
That is. Wow.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it was something else.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: So you both.
I mean, that was how long ago now?
[00:07:03] Speaker A: That was five years ago. And we are both have. We've been cancer free for.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: Congratulations.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: We've never had cancer. Either one of us had cancer. To come back after the initial treatment, she never had to go through chemo, but I had to do nine more treatments of chemo after radiation. So it was actually January of 21 when I heard those words. We do not see any cancer in you now.
And it's been that.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Congratulations. That's quite. That's quite a story. So I would imagine that your experience is colored by the fact that your wife had also just been diagnosed. But I'm wondering if you remember your mental and emotional response when you first heard that you were diagnosed with cancer.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think when I heard that I was diagnosed with cancer like you, you said it bowed up liver cancer.
But one of the things. I have been a heavy drinker all my life, and so, I mean, I really kind of took it. It was not. I did not have that why me pissed off kind of moment. I had more of the, well, you've done it to yourself and this is what you get.
Wow.
I kind of. That's kind of where I had a. A faith experience. I actually prayed and it was. Yeah, I really prayed to go either way. If it, if this was the end, it's the end. If it's not the end, then I would really like to change my life. And I will have to say I've never touched a drop of alcohol since that day I was told I had bile duct cancer. And I've never wanted to. I mean, I'm.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Well, congratulations on that too, because I know that's not easy either.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: I mean, but I don't have a problem with it. I still hang out with my old friends. They still do their old things, but I don't have any desire to participate with them anymore. Wow. I'm just their driver now.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Well, that, that serves a purpose.
So mentally, you kind of accepted. Okay, this is what I get, basically. Did you have any emotional response along the lines of fear or anything like that?
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I, I say sunshine it. I will say this about my doctor. The doctor only used the. The name cholangio carcinoma one time.
And then she, she told me and my wife both, she said, do not look this up because there's no Good data out there on it.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest. Most people, I don't think, believe me, I never knew what I had until I had already gone through all my treatments.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: You, you actually did not go.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: I did not know what I was faced with. I did not, I never, I didn't look it up.
She did. My wife did and said it only took her about 30 seconds and she shut the page down.
But she never shared that with me. Yeah, but so that, as I'm going through it, I didn't know. But when I was getting toward the end, I got curious. That's how I found the calangiocarcinoma Foundation. And so I realized, even after you read that data, well, you're not out of the woods, you know, there's still a lot more that could go on. It can come back.
So I still, I will have to say I realized that, that death could be a part of it. You know, I mean, just, I mean, my friends will tell me to this day, I never would have thought you would have made it. I mean, the people that came and visited me just said, right. I never would have thought you to pull through this. So I, I knew it was that possibility, but I really just didn't have the anxiety about it. I, I, I think some of it, I've always lived with a positive attitude.
So I look at things and I'm a, I love a challenge. I was a coach, I was a ball player. I just looked upon this as this, this is just another challenge I've gotta grab a hold of. And, and basically I provided the grit and God provided the grace.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: So as you look back on five years now, I mean, the little I know about cholangiocarcinoma is reoccurrence is common.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: And getting five years with no reoccurrence is not common. Is that. Okay, so if you look back on these last five years, how have you grown or changed as a person kind of now that you also, if you consider what you know about the disease now that you've done more research, I guess if you can say I'm wondering how you've grown or changed as a person.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Well, I would, you know, like I've told you, I got involved with the Clangio Carcinoma Foundation. So while by getting through this, I knew that I was becoming a unique person and I could provide a lot of hope for other people. And they have this program, a mentor program where they will match you up with other clangio patients.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: And so they, they will match you up. And then. So I can mentor to other patients who are going through this journey.
I've probably had about 15 mentees. I mean, I, I took this on a full time job. I mean, it's my, it's my focus in life.
Mentor other people. So I, I realize, and I still realize how blessed I am. I. I think back on, I feel like I went through a lot. I did go through a lot. I had a couple more surgeries after that, Hernia surgeries and stuff.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: And. But when I hear other people's stories, it just makes me feel like my story was just.
It was nothing compared to what I see a lot of other patients go through. Through. It kind of makes you feel guilty. They, it does foundation sometimes say, Phil, you need to tell your story because you offer a lot of, you know, and. But I feel guilty about it when I'm talking to a lot of my patients because they're, they've gone through a lot more than one.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I do understand. I mean, it's, it's both. Right. I mean, there, there's a gratefulness that you haven't. There's that survivor's guilt.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: And yet, like people have been telling you, you can offer hope in a way that other people, you can, you know, you give them that Gl.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I think sunshine. It's just. I try to tell people I look for a positive. I don't care if it was the least little thing. If it was only getting up and going to the bathroom. To me, that was a positive thing.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: And if I did that one day, then the next day I would try to go a few steps further than the bathroom and just. And you just slowly work your way out of it. But what. I guess the way it really changed my life, it humbled me to no end.
I got rid of anger.
I really got rid of worry and anxiety. I, I really, truly live a day at a time and appreciate a lot of the small things.
You know, I love hearing the birds sing, going out on porch, watching the snow come down last.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: We don't get it.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, that's right.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: But I went out and had the ocean on the porch while it's snowing so I could just, you know, be out there in nature. And I love it. I love just working in my yard and being around gardening. I'm a gardener. I like growing vegetables and all that stuff. So I just, I enjoyed the small things of life.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And this might be the answer to my next question, but was there an aha. Moment where kind of making that shift, like, you remember when that shift happened?
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Ah, I. You know, I don't think so. I think it just kind of evolved. It's. It's just like when I. When I tell you I had a spiritual kind of experience, I wish I could explain that to somebody, but there was something that came into my heart that totally just gave me relaxation and comfort. And I trusted through the whole experience and never questioned. Never really questioned a whole lot.
But I had things to happen that. That I don't. Here's what I told people after this. I don't believe in coincidences anymore.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: I think.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: Can you give us one example?
[00:16:06] Speaker A: I think it was all purposeful.
Well, the. The one example would be that doctor, when I. When I went down for this, for my resection, he bumped. He bumped of a surgery for me. Oh, wow. This guy didn't know me from anywhere.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: But he knew how critical it was. I have that surgery. So he actually bumped another.
Wow. Patient out and put me in for that place right there.
And that's just unbelievable. You know, that something.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was from Monday to. I mean, sorry, Friday to Monday.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Right, Right. Wow. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I never met. I mean, didn't meet him. I didn't meet him until Monday morning, right before the.
Really early that morning. And then, like I said, then they started prepping me and doing all that.
And I remember talking to him when I was laying on the table before they put me out. And then. Then the next day is the next time I saw him.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Is it.
Was it through the foundation that you learned about Epic Experience?
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: So we have a support group.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: You have a support group?
[00:17:20] Speaker A: We have a support group once a month. If you want to get on, you can just. And I mostly listen, and I actually got on a little late that day, but Mama Louis, I caught the end of Mama Lou's.
I caught the end of her spill about.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: About.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: I guess she was at the beginning. But I'm, you know, I'm that kind of guy. I'm. I'm a athlete. I enjoy doing adventurous stuff, but I hadn't done a lot of adventurous stuff in a long time. So I knew when I listened to that podcast that day or that Zoom meeting, I'm like, I'm going to that camp.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: And you did. So when did you go to camp?
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Well, I lucked out because I got online and read up a lot about Epic Experience and stuff. But, you know, there's a Waiting list, so.
But I was real fortunate, I guess the foundation and epic experience worked out a camp for just claim geo patients and. And you just had to apply. But the day they told that came out, I applied that day and my doctor sent in my medical forms because it was like, we're only going to take the first 10 people. So.
So I wanted to make sure I got my name in the hat.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: So.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: So what stood out to you about being surrounded by people who truly understood because you share the same type of cancer?
In particular, because the camps all have, you know, all cancer survivors. But a lot of times they're mixed. So in your case in particular, it was calangiocarcinoma for everyone.
So what stood out to you being surrounded by a group who could truly identify like with what you were going through?
[00:19:10] Speaker A: Well, for one thing, it's just wonderful to get to know another community of people. I've gone to the conference every year in Utah. They have a clangio foundation host a conference every spring.
And I've gone. And one of the.
The things you get out of that is just sitting at a table with other patients, sharing your stories and. But there's also researchers and doctors and stuff there. So it just broadened my.
It. It broadened my community of knowing more calangio people and hearing more colangio stories.
Now I will. I will have to say in my group.
I need to say this too. I was the only guy with 10 women.
Yeah.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: I'm sure that added a whole nother level.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it was fun because I got to stay. That was it.
What is it? The W ranch I got.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: In the workout room. So.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Because every morning I didn't.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: So.
But here I was at camp majority of these ladies. There was one other lady who was probably about two years out at that point in time. I was three years out.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: So. So I was given a lot of hope there too, because the majority of the other patients were dead in the middle of their journey.
I mean, I felt sorry, just really hurt for some of them because. And they.
And some of them really had a lot of anger issues and there was a lot of things that I couldn't really relate to. But. But I understood. You know, I totally understood. But.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Well, especially because you've been a mentor. I imagine some of the people you've mentored.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I've. I've already. You know, that's the worst. The worst part about the mentoring thing is you lose. You lose friends. I mean, I haven't. I just lost my One of my best friends. He had. He had. He had lived for three years, but yeah, he. He passed away this past year in October. So that's. That hurts, I have to admit.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: It does, it does.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: It hurts.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: But that's one of the hardest things about camp, too. I don't know if you've had people from the camp you were at pass away, but that. It's one of the best parts is meeting all these survivors. But it's one of the worst parts because.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, we've lost out of the camp. I went to two people. Yeah. Within that year. Two people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's tough.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Definitely. It definitely is.
What would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned through this whole journey, either at camp, like through. Specifically through that, or just your cancer journey in, in general?
[00:22:15] Speaker A: I, I think don't expect too much out of life.
Better you better enjoy what you got. And, and, and, and then don't worry too much about the.
The bigger things or the.
I don't know how to say. The best way I know how to put it is as a coach and as a player.
You know, I always said you don't want to get too high with the wins and you don't want to get too low with the losses, so. Because even I've coached some championship teams and you have to try to tell your.
Your players, you know, tomorrow is just going to be another day.
Yeah. And life keeps going on. So I think that was it. And one of the things I, I thought camp was really good for me for, I think for anybody who's going to camp, is when you're going through this cancer journey, you don't know what's ahead. You can read all this data and you can put in your mind all these things you're think are going to happen, but they might not happen to you. Even we all take the same chemo, but I have the reaction to chemo that other people have.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: So you can't put too much emphasis on what's happening. What's bad with some person might not be bad with me at all. And, and so that's what I loved about camp, is the fact that you go through a week not really knowing what you're going to do that day until that day gets there. And, and that just. That resonated with me a lot because that's the way I looked at my cancer journey. I never really looked ahead. Why. Why worry about, am I going to get deathly ill over radiation or over chemo until I actually get ill, you know?
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Because you might not. I didn't. So it.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Was a good experience. I mean, it wasn't a good experience.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Right. But it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
You saved yourself from more unnecessary worry.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah. That's really good. Is there anything else that you would want to share with someone listening that I haven't specifically asked you about?
[00:24:45] Speaker A: No. Well, what I would love for everybody to know.
I. I want to help. I try to help other people. It doesn't matter if they have clean Joe or not. You know, I'm always trying to reach out. When I hear that someone's got cancer, I just want them to know, hey, I've got an open heart, I got an open mind. I'm willing to listen. I don't know a lot. I'm not going to be able to tell you a whole lot, but, you know, I can pat you on the back. I can understand where you coming from and just know you're not going through the journey alone.
I. I did not meet a Clangio patient until a year and a half later when I went to that conference in Utah. Was the first time I ever talked to anybody about cholangiocarcinoma. It was a year and a half after my diagnosis, so.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: And my doctors were not calangio doctor, so they didn't talk a lot about it either. I mean, my oncologist, I'm probably only about her 10th Clangia patient practicing. So it's. It's just a real un.
Surreal experience that I went through. Somebody knew. I think the surgeon in Atlanta knew because my oncologist said. I said, how did you.
How did you know the plan or. Because my plan has been different than any other clan.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And I can't understand it. And. And she says, I'll tell you. You came to me with a plan. All I did was implement it.
So I guess my surgeon laid it out. He was a big. He had done many, many resections, done liver transplants. He. He was a big liver guy. So, yeah, I think he. He must have laid it out for me. I'll tell you, that's one of those things.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: I'm just Coincidences. Right.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: That's no coincidence. Somebody was looking out for me.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. And it is easier to just relax when you have that mindset.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. So I. That's all I want people to know. There's hope. There's.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Don't. Don't let it get you too Far down there. There are gonna be bad days. You know, there's just gonna. That's it. But, yeah, they're bad days.
I had bad days when I didn't have cancer.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Right.
It's true. That's. That's called life.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Well, the last question I always end with is very serious. Marshmallows over a campfire.
Slow and steady or flaming crispy?
[00:27:27] Speaker A: I'm a slow and steady person.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Do you successfully do it slow and steady? Because there are those of us who try that, and then we end up with flaming crispy.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: I have learned. I have learned.
I told you I was a camper. My wife and I camped a lot. But.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: My wife and I also ran a non denominational Christian residential girls camp. Oh, wow. For 17 years.
So. Well, she did it for I. I worked with her for 10 years as an operations manager and a kitchen manager.
But I also. Another fun fact. I went back to school at 50 years old, got a master's degree in math education, and I taught middle school Math and coached 8th grade girls basketball.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: You are a brave man.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: For 11 years.
But I nailed down my health insurance. I nailed down a retirement plan.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Good for you. Good for you.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Well, so I've done a lot of more. I did a lot.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: I was gonna say you've done a
[00:28:30] Speaker A: lot of marshmallows, so I've done them both ways, I will say.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: But you have perfected them over the flame.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: You know, you get over the coals over there and you can do it low and slow.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Good for you.
Well, Phil, thank you so much.
It has been a pleasure. I appreciate your positive attitude and you sharing the lessons that you learned along the way. I think you do provide hope for those who are listening. So thank you.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: And to those of you listening, next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires of Living Beyond Cancer. For more information about Epic Experience and our programs or to donate, please visit our website at Epic Music for this podcast is provided by Moonshiner Collective. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us so we can share our story with more people. Also, be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you'll know when new episodes are released. We hope you come back and join us for our next episode.
Please. Still, I mean, bright and woke, we will rise once again.
