[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lu and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of hope you living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment.
Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
Hello everyone. This is Gail AKA Sunshine. Today we have Glenn Williams joining us around the campfire. September is prostate cancer awareness month and we're honored to have Glenn join us and share his story and perspective and as a prostate cancer survivor. So, Glenn, thank you so much for joining us and welcome.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Well, thank you. I'm delighted to be here.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: So first I'd just love you to tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, your family, career. And I always ask everybody to include one fun fact.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Well, so I'm approaching my 64th year.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Congratulations.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: I live, I live just north of Toronto in Canada, about an hour north of Toronto.
I've been married for 36 years. I had to do the math there.
Holy moly. That, that time.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Congratulations again. That's wonderful.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, thank you.
I have three grown children, so they're all out doing what grown up kids do.
Happy to report. I have one granddaughter, Annie, which is just the life of my life. She, she loves her grandpa. G. No.
And in terms of my occupation, I worked for a global payroll company for about 25 years.
Started as a credit manager, moved into relationship management and then return back as credit manager during the global pandemic, which is not. You don't want to be the credit manager for a payroll company during a pandemic. That was not.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: That's a hot tip.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that was a challenging period for sure.
And currently I'm on leave, so to keep busy, I volunteer with the Canadian Cancer Society. So I'm a volunteer driver with Wheels of Hope. So I, I pick up patients at, at their homes, take them to their treatments, have a coffee or such and wait for them to be finished and then return them back back home.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Oh, that's great.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
And in addition to that, I've also, I've also been asked to be a board member of a patient advisory board for a drug distribution company, Centrex.
So they, they provide any, any whole array of drugs and medical supplies not specific to cancer, but a large cancer component of it. So, so I'm looking forward and quite enjoying that as well, and one fun fact.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Although some of those are fun. Anyway.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Fun fact.
Well, I, I like to be active, so my happy place is on the ski hill.
Yeah, I, I enjoy, enjoy being on the ski hill. I'm an avid cyclist, so I have cycled in Vietnam, Patagonia, and I've just booked a trip to Japan in November.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah, looking forward to that.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Ah, that's great.
Well, let's move to your diagnosis story. So we know it's prostate cancer, but if you can tell us a little bit about when, how you were diagnosed briefly, you know, treatment and surgery and that kind of thing.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Sure, yeah, happy to.
So I was originally diagnosed in November of 2017, so quite a while ago it was diagnosed as stage three prostate cancer. At that point, Gleason score was four plus three, which is very prostate type rating.
I opted for the robotic surgery which then required me to kind of sit tight for a little bit.
You know, it's the latest and greatest in terms of surgeries, less invasive. So I said, no, I'm. I can wait till March. So in March I had the radical prostatectomy by the robotic method.
And then, you know, everything was great. You know, followed up in three months with my oncologist. PSA was still evident, but he thought, you know, that is just some legacy hangover cancer cells.
So was not at all concerned.
Followed up with him three months later and unfortunately my PSA was climbing.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Which. Yeah, so that was, that was not great news.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: So that September of 2018, I started radiation treatment.
So I had six weeks of radiation treatment in conjunction with ADT hormone therapy injections at the same time.
Yeah. So successfully went through six weeks of radiation, continued on hormone therapy for about two years, which I was not a. Over overly a big fan of, but anyway. But it did the trick. It did what it was supposed to do. So it managed the PSA and kept things where they needed to be.
A bit of a surprise. In March of 2022, PSA started to climb and I had a reoccurrence in my scapula.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Really?
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I had radiation to my scapula.
Yeah. Which I thought that seems like such an odd.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Well, that seems like such an odd place.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: That's what I said.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: I think lung or brain, unfortunately, but scalp, but. So they radiated it.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: Yes, yes. So I. It was a shorter period of radiation. That was six treatments, not every day.
So that, that was. And that was, that wasn't quite as, as onerous as the previous radiation.
But that seemed to do the trick because pet Scans are showing no evidence of disease in my scapula. So that's. That's great.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Very good.
So from that point till today, no other reoccurrences?
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Well, I'm. I am metastatic.
So I did actually just on Monday received results from my psma and there's some hot spots here and there.
Liver, bladder, kidneys.
The one that does concern me a little bit is pancreas.
But.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: So you are being continually monitored? Basically. I mean that.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: They're gonna keep monitoring you. Okay. And so right now, are you on any kind of treatment or they're just kind of watching these hot spots?
[00:08:30] Speaker A: No, they're just watching.
I'll meet with, with my oncologist on the 22nd and then we'll discuss what, you know, what, what the treatment protocol will be at that time.
I'm assuming it. It'll be probably, probably hormone therapy, I'm not sure, but we'll see.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: So knowing. Knowing that something's there, what kind of impact does that have on you? Mentally, emotionally, physically? I don't know if you're having any symptoms, but what is it like just knowing there is something there that you're currently not actively.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that, that.
That's a tough one.
Sometimes, you know, it. It creeps into your thinking every now and then, you know, you're thinking about, okay, where is it? How is it? Is it moving? Is it not, Is it serious? Is it not? So you play those, those scenarios over in your head many, many, many times. Mostly.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: When you're trying to fall asleep.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: Exactly. That's when they usually pop up.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: That's, that's. That's when you don't have the distractions of day to day life.
So, I mean, but it's been, it's been a long journey for me. So it's not, it's not something. It's. It's a concept that I'm very, very familiar and comfortable with.
The care I'm getting is. Is extraordinary. I'm at Princess Margaret Cancer center in Toronto, which is ranked as the second best cancer facility in the world, so.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
Yes, that does bring some peace to know that you're. You're doing absolutely everything you can at the, you know, one of the best facilities that you can.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And. And I'm. I'm heavily involved in.
In the cancer world, which sounds. May sound a little obscure, but I'm driving people with cancer. I'm volunteering with Movember.
I'm taking advantage of, you know, these wonderful retreats that, that are open to me and I'm just absolutely loving it.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaking specifically of prostate cancer, I'm wondering if there are specific physical, mental, emotional challenges that you've experienced that at least you would attribute to being specifically prostate cancer. And if there's nothing specifically prostrate, maybe just cancer in general.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Well, I think men don't tip. Aren't openly forward with talking about their, their difficulties. And I've, I've counseled quite a few guys over the years, you know, trying to get them to open up and understand and, and you know, have them, have them really understand that there's a lot of support out there and they're not alone. And it's, this is not a journey that you wanted to go solo.
You, you need to talk to other people, you need to understand their, you know, where they're at in relation to where you're at in terms of treatment and drugs and everything else and, and how they're, how they're planning to live the rest of their life. It's, that's such an important factor. It's, you know, I know time is short. It's short for everybody, but I think people with cancer, it's, it's, it's, it's particularly short.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more front of mind, for sure.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So it forces you to, to fast forward any kind of long term planning experiences.
The one thing is, is, is reaching out to people that you've, that you've kind of lost touch with thinking that, wow, I really, I really want to make sure that, you know, I, I stay in contact with that person and not regret not doing so.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Doing it now when I, I'm relatively mobile and healthy and.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Right, right.
You mentioned that men a lot of times have trouble reaching out. Did you find that for yourself when you were first diagnosed?
[00:12:39] Speaker A: I, I did, I did.
And my oncologist kind of sensed that. So he, he connected me with a therapist at the hospital who completely opened, opened it up for me.
And the more, the more involved I became, the easier it got.
And, and I mean, it's a shared benefit. I'm getting benefit. But then when people hear my story and what I've been through and how I've managed makes them feel good as well.
You know, it's like, wow, wow, I didn't know that or I didn't know that or wow, that you know. So, yeah, I, I'm finding that being the council, the counseling role, I guess, is, is very, very essential and rewarding.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, definitely you. The way we Got connected is through epic experience. You attended a thriving together camp.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: I did.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: And when was that? So if you can tell us a little about it, I think it was in Californ.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: It was, yes. It was up in the wonderful hills of California. I've never been to California, so I was, I was delighted to get there.
And it was, I'm still, I think I've told people I'm still 3ft off the ground from that experience. It was just so incredibly satisfying and essential and memorable.
The connections that I've made with people. You know, I'm this lone wolf up here in Canada, but geography does not.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Is not a factor in any sense. So met some fantastic people and it was, it was so wonderful to be able to kind of have the cancer talk without making people feel awkward.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Or having people say, oh gee, you look really good.
Are you sure you got cancer?
Like, oh, you know, like that kind of stuff.
And there was so much of that. Like it was just, it was just free flowing, sharing and safe, such a safe environment to be able to do that.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: And the survivors who you went with, I'm guessing that not all of them were prostate cancer survivors. It was a mix of cancers, men and women, age differences, the whole thing.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Right. Yep.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: We had a whole cornucopia of various different cancers. And I learned a lot about the other cancer.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Isn't that interesting? Yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Although there was a lot of commonalities as well.
Yeah. So. And you know, some of the struggles that these people have been through, I, I, I was shocked with some of it and their, their attitude and their, their approach and their positive, the way they've maintained a positive outlook was just so refreshing.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: And we all supported each other. It was all that which was, which was so fantastic.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Was there anything that surprised you? Like maybe you thought you were the only one who experienced X and you found out that. Well, most cancer survivors experience something similar. Was there anything that stood out to you like that?
[00:16:16] Speaker A: I think, I think the, the term that I use are cancer ghosts. So these are people that are within your, your circle of friends or your, your personal network that ghost you.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: For whatever reason.
And then there's the others that, that surprise you. So we, we talked quite a bit about that. How, how so many people that you thought you could lean on just were not prepared or able to take on that responsibility, which I still have a little bit of difficulty with some of that. But I, I can kind of understand.
You know, it's kind of like you're not going to catch It.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: You know, it's not contagious.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: But it was kind of like that a little bit.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: And other, other people kind of experience the same, like people.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: It's amazing how quiet people get and they just don't know what to say or.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: That's exactly it. Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: You know, so.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that is a commonality I've heard from being involved in EPIC from. I've been involved for over 10 years now. Is that that whole concept, both sides, people who weren't there that you thought would be and people who showed up in amazing ways that you just didn't even realize? I think.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: No, no.
Like going to the hospital is, is like a attitude infusion. Experience. Experience for me. Everyone is so wonderful.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: And I always come out of there feeling better. Even the parking attendant or the lady at the donut shop, everyone's in such a great mood. So it's.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: It's a, it's its own little world there.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: So that's.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah. What would you say if you think about your whole experience? So again, you've been dealing with this almost 10 years, right. Because you said 2017. So what do you think is the biggest lesson you've learned either either through the thriving Together camp or from some other aspect of your journey?
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Well, I'm glad you asked that.
What this, what this experience, illness, whatever you want to call it, has really made me understand is that I'm, I'm living the life now that's true to myself. Not a life that anyone else has, you know, fulfilling other people's expectations.
It's, it's. It's my time.
And yeah, I, I guess that, that, that's kind of it. It's. Yeah. It may sound a little selfish or a little self centered, but I don't, I don't pay any attention to that.
So, yeah, it's, it's giving me the courage to just, just move forward and, and do what I want to do and, you know, kind of be this kind of new person because I, I did leave a little bit of myself with, with cancer. So I'm not, I'm not the same person I was.
I kind of like this version. It's 2.0. It's not so bad.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Glenn 2.0. What would you. Can you think of one thing in particular that's changed that you're glad? Like, I like this. Glenn 2.0.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Oh, I don't, I don't get wound up about anything. Nothing.
And, and I Tell people you have to open the aperture of your awareness and see just how fantastic things are. I mean, we, we can. So I think humans have a default to negative, and we certainly have enough to keep us in the negative frame of mind. Yeah, but there's just so much.
I mean, look at, look at like the things I've been able to do and the things I've been able to experience, I would never have ever been able to do some of the things I've. I've done without having the opportunity.
Being ill.
Yeah, but it kind of, it kind of forces you to. You have to push yourself and, and an experience, enrich the time you have. And I'm, I'm a nut for that.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Well, look, you've gone bike riding in Patagonia. Did you say Vietnam? And now you're going to Japan. I mean, that's amazing.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Those are true adventures.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Well, you know, at these advanced years, I don't know how many years I have to do that, so go for it.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: I'm not wasting any time.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: That's great.
Is there anything else that you would want to share with someone listening, whether they're duly newly diagnosed or down the path or whatever?
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Yeah, and, and specifically, like, if, if we're talking specific to prostate cancer for, for September, as I said, men have this character flaw of carrying it. The world on their shoulders and, and not being open about, you know, things about their, their health.
You can't, you can't carry this around on your own. I tried that and I'm so glad it didn't last that long.
And I, I found the support and, and have been able to provide support as well.
So I would encourage every man a. To stay on top of your psa, get your annual checks. If there's anything that's concerning, get to your doctor. Don't.
And what I tell people is action absorbs anxiety.
So if you're not doing something and you're thinking about it, you're creating anxiety just by placing a call to your doctor to say there's something not quite right that alleviates the anxiety.
So take action.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's excellent.
Well, the most important question. Well, not most important, the one I always end with on a light note. Marshmallows over a campfire.
Slow and steady or flaming crispy?
[00:22:56] Speaker A: Oh, slow and steady.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Slow and steady.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Let's let it mature. It's, it's, it's a craftsman type.
Like, what's the rush?
Just.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: Well, it kind of goes with your whole new. Not getting, you know, upset about things. Just let it go. Let it, let it become nice and golden brown.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's so, so much more satisfying.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: I love it. Well, Glenn, thank you so much for joining me. It sounds like you have had a.
You've turned what could have been a really negative experience into something that has been fulfilling and has launched you into great adventures. I just.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Oh, thank you.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Wonderful.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: Thank you so much. And this has been an absolute treat, I must say. Thank you so much.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep Living Beyond Cancer.
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