Dating & Cancer

[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known. [00:00:11] Speaker B: As Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience. Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer. I hope that as you listen to campfires of hope living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it. This is beyond cancer. [00:00:59] Speaker A: Police still are not slight the family man. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Today we're going to be talking about dating and cancer and we have two survivors with us. We have Carly and Michael. Welcome to both of you. [00:01:17] Speaker C: Thanks, Kim. How's it going? [00:01:19] Speaker B: All right. And we're going to start off just having you guys tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me your camp name, tell me where you're from, and one fun fact. Go. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Okay. My name is Carly. My camp name is Tater Tot. I went to camp back in July of 2019. I am currently living in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and I'm about to graduate in less than two weeks. Fun fact about me is I've been to 47, 47 states and 22 countries. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Wow. [00:01:58] Speaker C: I can't beat that. [00:02:00] Speaker B: No way. I can't even come close. Awesome. [00:02:04] Speaker C: Well, yeah, that's. That's pretty impressive, Carly. So, yeah, my name is Michael Farrow. Camp name is train tracks. Was diagnosed with testicular cancer almost 14 years ago. Live here in the great state of Colorado and originally from Sacramento, but I've been fortunate enough to live in Colorado now for, shoot, almost 15 years now. Fun fact about myself, oh, gosh, I would say I have made one game winning shot in my entire life when I was in sixth grade playing basketball. [00:02:40] Speaker B: You've done it, though. [00:02:41] Speaker C: I've done it. I've done it. I made the shot and that's all that counts. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. Today we're going to be talking about dating and cancer, which can be a rough subject for some people. I really appreciate you being here and talking with us. Let's start with your cancer diagnosis. When were you diagnosed? What cancer? A little bit about your treatment, things like that. [00:03:09] Speaker C: I was diagnosed August of 2007. Started with again, testicular cancer was my diagnosis. You know, so I was complaining about essentially a bump on my testicle for a while. And that was, I think in the time frame around June. And when, when I first, you know, felt the bump, I was like, okay, maybe it's a zit, a warp, something like that. Still kind of embarrassing because it's your, you know, your private parts, if you will, you know, But. But for me, you know, I tried to ignore for a couple months and then finally made the appointment and called up my parents and said, hey, I got something going on that I think I need to get checked out. Then sure enough, I had the ultrasound done and then they confirmed that it was testicular. Had my orchiectomy where they removed the testicle. And then from there I had another surgery on my stomach, which they call as a retroperitoneal lymph node dissection, where they essentially open you up, take all your insides out, put it on the table, and the doctor literally puts his hand into your guts and rips the lymph nodes out and then put humpty dumpty back together again. So that was kind of my process. I also had a brain tumor as well. That kind of complicated things in regards to my treatment plans. So that's why I decided to do surgery and I decided not to do chemo specifically because of fertility. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Carly, how about you? [00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I was diagnosed in August of 2017. I was diagnosed with Ewing sarcoma of the spine. I had a grape sized tumor crushing my spinal cord and the lower parts of my lumbar spine. How I found out was about six, seven months prior to finding out. I had severe back pain and I previously had been playing soccer all my life. I was working out every day and I thought it was maybe I lifted wrong really bad one time and I was just sore. I went to physical therapy. My doctors didn't really think anything of it. Then at the end of July, I was at a graduation party and I was dancing and all of a sudden I couldn't feel my legs. So that was pretty scary. And then a few days later, I. My dad took me to the emergency room and it got worse and worse. And I had two spinal surgeries. The first one was to take the tumor out, and then the second one was because my spinal fluid was leaking out of my back, so they had to go in and fix it again. Then I had 14 rounds of chemo and 27 rounds of radiation. Wow. Yeah. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Both of you have been through it at a young age, at an age when a lot of people are dating. I don't know if you both said this, but how old were you? And at the time you were diagnosed, were you single? Were you casually dating? What was your relationship status? [00:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I was. I was 22 when. So, I mean, 22, 23. You know, when I. When I first got diagnosed, 22 I mean, essentially February was the brain tumor, and then August was the cancer. So I had a birthday in between then. So that's why I say 22 to 23. But, yeah, so, no, I was casually dating. I was in the process of literally finishing up college. So to me, I wasn't. I mean, casually dating. This is the best way to pray. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Nothing serious. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Nothing serious. Yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker A: I was 19 when I was diagnosed. I was in a pretty serious relationship. We had been dating for, on and off for about two years. And then, like, four months into treatment, he had gone off to college and he was playing football, and he. He just said that he was having too much fun to come home and visit me. So I ended it because I was like, I need someone who's going to be there for me. So. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Well, yeah, especially in the middle of that, what you're going through. So once you were diagnosed, what went through your mind when it came to dating? Now, Carly, you were kind of in a relationship at first. Michael, not so much, but, like, did you think, no one's going to want to date me, or will this person. I wonder, Carly, if you thought, is this person not going to want to continue dating me? I mean, what kind of went through your mind in this. In that way? [00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I. Because at first, the person that I was dating, he was like. He was. He was like, I'll be there for you when you lose your hair. I'll be there for you when you grow it back. And. And he. I kind of brought up fertility just because I wasn't sure, and my doctors had mentioned it to me, and he was like, oh, it's fine. Like, we can get through that. So I wasn't really worried. And then when we broke up, I kind of. I didn't even think about dating after that. And it's been really hard since. I haven't dated anyone since. [00:08:34] Speaker B: So, yeah. [00:08:38] Speaker C: Yeah, for me, it was, you know, I immediately went to, can I have kids? You know, and so, I mean, I was, you know, at 23 years old, that was. That was my main priority was, you know, hey, I'm not even dating anyone right now, but I need to know that, you know, am I going to be. I don't like using this term, but am I going to be wasted goods essentially, to someone because I can't give that person a child, you know, so that. That was kind of where my head first went to, you know, so. So to me, you know, fertility has always been kind of that main kind of topic when it came to dating. You know, when I, When I really kind of got back into kind of the groove of things for myself, like, you know, bringing up the fertility conversation at 23, 24, 25, most women, and I'm. I might be generalizing here, but most women aren't mature enough to have that conversation. And, you know, I felt like, you know, the times that I did, a lot of some people just didn't understand it, that everything that would have to go into what fertility looks like, you know, it's understanding that, hey, it's not like a magic pill and it's just going to work like that. You know, I think it's very. It is very complicated. So to me, it took a lot for me to, you know, figure out how to have that conversation with women in general. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Have either of you, and I don't know if they can say definitive, but have either of you received a somewhat definitive answer that you cannot have kids, or is it still a wait and see kind of thing? [00:10:17] Speaker A: I think it's a little bit of both. I know, like right now I can't have kids because the chemo put me into premenopause. So I was menopausal for a few months after chemo, which messes up your egg production and everything, which was scary. And. But they said that maybe 10 years from now, like, my eggs could be rebounded. And I could, but they don't know for sure. [00:10:45] Speaker C: So for myself, it's a. I mean, I'd say it's kind of a little bit of both. You know, I've had some doctors that have told me that it's going to be a pretty big challenge. I've had other doctors say, hey, you know, we've done a semen analysis and you do still have some stuff in there, you know, but. But it's, you know, and this is where I, I've had to do a lot of, kind of self education in regards to understanding the terminology when it comes to semen analysis, you know, but, but for me, it's, you know, I get my. I don't have very good numbers in itself. And I think that's where, like, fertility again, you know, I had testicular cancer, you know, and a lot of times with testicular, they always say you only need one. Right. You know, but. But for. With me, my brain tumor is probably more of the, I would say, issue that's causing the, the fertility issues, you know, and then again, you take the test, the. The testicular cancer and throw that into it, and it's just kind of in a Way kind of a perfect storm. So, you know, I've had, like I said, I've had doctors say, going to be a challenge. Others say, you know, it could be possible. So, you know, I'm just being optimistic as I can. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Right. And then there's the question, when do you spring that on someone? Right? I mean, you're thinking about dating, you're interested in someone. When do you decide to tell someone, hey, I had cancer or have, you know, or whatever stage you're in. And then there's that part. Have you guys thought about that? [00:12:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I struggled a lot with that, actually. When I was going through treatment, I was on dating apps, but I never really touched it just because I was bald and my picture right after treatment was done. I was trying to get back out there, but I didn't know whether I should keep the photos of me a year ago and I had full hair or keep the photos that are. I'm just bald. And a lot of. I got a lot of, like, backlash. Some guys were like, oh, those are two different people. And I was like, actually, I mean, they kind of are, but not really. But I've talked with my therapist a lot about it, and she was like, why don't you just put it in your bio or something? Or put it on. On your app in some way, like something small. So I've. I've put cancer survivor on my. And if they want to ask about it, they can. I'm always really open about that kind of stuff, but I felt like it's easier for me to just put it out there rather than slide it into the conversation later. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. And try and figure out when it's not going to be awkward. At least I know from the beginning. [00:13:30] Speaker C: When I first got diagnosed, I had a really tough time trying to figure out the right timing of when would be the right time to tell someone that, hey, I have a fake testicle. And I'm also, you know, showing a scar on my stomach that is pretty brutal for me. It kind of took me, I would say, a while to figure out what that timing looked like. Whether it was one month, whether it was a few weeks, whether it was a year. I think for me, it was. I'd rather be transparent about it. Transparent about it at the beginning. And that's when I look back. I mean, you know, now I'm 14 year, almost 14 years out, and it's, you know, I've learned a lot from that. At the same time, I look back on it and say, well, you know, it's that mindset, if they can't accept me for what I've been through, then I'm going to save myself some time on, you know, whether it's a month or two relationship or six months or a year. But for me, at the end of the day it's, you know, I want this person to accept me for who I am and what I've been through. And if they can't do that, then rocks. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a feeling it depends on the relationship, the person. It's never going to be easy. Right. It's a matter of figuring out what works best for you. One thing I'm wondering is, when you were diagnosed with cancer, do you feel like your values in general changed and then also in terms of what you were looking for in a dating relationship? [00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely think my values have like shifted. Before cancer, I think I was a little bit more worried about like, oh, I need someone who's, who's attractive, someone who I'm attracted to. And yes, that's so important to me. But something that is even more important is someone who understands the dark parts of me and the part, the hardest parts of my life and they understand my limitations and just like the hardest things that I go through and they're okay to be there for everything. And I think someone who accepts you for who you are is something that's way more important to me than looks or anything like that. [00:15:46] Speaker C: Definitely my perspective definitely changed. I think when I first got sick, you know, 20, 23 years old, I looked at it as, hey, I just had to grow up and essentially grow up to be a 50 year old, 60 year old man and just kind of wake up and mature at the same time. You know, I look at it as, I don't view it as, you know, the maturity aspect of it obviously was very important. The values that I gained. You know, I think to me I just, I lost my patience for bullshit. I lost my patience for drama. And I think for me, I also learned a lot about just what I was looking for in a relationship. I think the values that I was looking for, they were stronger. I think the way I look at it is what I was looking for. I wasn't just looking for someone that loved me for who I am, but I was also looking for someone that was going to appreciate the values and the way I look at life similarly. And you know, it's, it's that kind of live like you were dying mentality, that YOLO mentality that you only live once and you're going to live it, like, you can, you know, and at the end of the day, it's, you know, if that other person doesn't have those same kind of mindset or value, then that's okay. But for me, that's, that's what, you know, I think it took me a long time to figure out what, what that, what that looked like in a relationship, definitely. [00:17:13] Speaker B: So I think, Carly, you already answered this, but have either of you been in a dating relationship since you were diagnosed with cancer? [00:17:22] Speaker A: I haven't dated, like, I haven't been in a relationship since that last relationship, but I've dated somewhat, gone on a few dates. I, for some reason, I just have had a hard time dating. And I think part of it is I need to accept, like, my body for what it is now. And like, I feel like with cancer, even, like, years out, and Michael, you probably feel this too. You still have days where it's just so hard, and I feel like I need to be okay with that before I can let someone in my life who's gonna, like, help me with that. [00:17:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, 100%. I, I could not agree more there. So, yes, I, I, so I, I've been in. It, definitely been in a few dating relationships since I got diagnosed, you know, at 22, 23. Like I said earlier, I was dating early on, you know, nothing serious, just kind of having fun. As I got older, you know, I also kind of felt that, okay, I have this, this time clock on me now, especially from a fertility perspective. So for me, it was, you know, I almost kind of rushing into relationships for all the wrong reasons. And, you know, I, I'm very upfront about this. You know, I was married for a short time, and I look back at that relationship, and to me, it was. I was forcing myself to want to move forward with life. And in the sense of, you know, I was 28, 29 when. When 29, when I got married. And I look back at it, and for me it was, you know, I have all my friends that are getting married, having kids and like that. And for me it's like, well, I'm just kind of sitting back, waiting on life to happen. And like I said, like, I, you know, I went into a lot of that for all the wrong reasons. And that's where, you know, I think looking back on where I am now, I've learned a lot more about, you know, kind of what I was talking about earlier, the values that you look for in a relationship. And to me, it was, it was something that, again, it was, it was A very hard thing to go through. But at the same time, I. You know, just like cancer, I learned a hell of a lot from it. And I learned a hell of a lot in the sense of I'm never going to settle. You know, I'm never going to just say, well, you know, this is the relationship that I'm. That I'm in. Oh, well, you know, but to me, it was. I wanted to make sure that for me, I was going to be doing everything in my power to focus on my own happiness. And I wanted to make sure that my values at the same time are being honored for myself, too. And at the end of the day, I am with someone now that she's also a cancer survivor. And I think that's what makes our relationship so unique, that we have a complete understanding of what we each go through. You know, if it goes to, you know, if one of us has a scare, you know, if one of us has a scare that's going on, We've both been in those same shoes before that we can relate to something like that. And I think we go back to that value of we're just going to live it us, and we don't want to, you know, essentially sit back and wait for something to happen, instead be proactive about it and live life how we can. [00:20:48] Speaker B: Yeah, you just. So it sounds like dating someone who has been through cancer herself has made a big difference for you, Michael. And I'm wondering, Carly, for you, I know you mentioned that part of the struggles I guess you've had have been more with yourself, but in the people you have dated, have any of them had someone in their life with cancer? Did that make a difference in any kind of connection that you guys had? [00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Last year I dated someone for a month or so, and he. Him and I had actually matched on. On a dating website while I was in treatment. And so we kind of were friends for a few years after that. And then he moved up to Minneapolis. So I was like, hey, let's get dinner. And that relationship, it didn't end up in a relationship, but it was better because he understood where I. He already knew about the story. And. And we had talked about it before, and that was really helpful. He, like, I. I think when we were dating, I had to go back home for scans. And he was like, I really hope they go. They go, well, like, let me know if you need anything. And like, I really hope that maybe someday I can find someone who's also a cancer survivor or someone who just really gets it and I haven't dated anyone who, I mean, a lot of people are like, oh, you're so strong, like you're badass for kicking cancer. Yes. But like, I, I love that from people, but sometimes I just want people to just like, listen and it's really hard to find those people. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. If you think about people, I mean, you guys, you were what, 19 and 23, right. That's how old you guys were. Think about someone around that age diagnosed with cancer in your shoes, you know, wondering about all the things that you guys have now gone through, what suggestions you can you make for someone who's kind of been through that and now they're considering getting back into the dating scene. Are there things that you've either done or at least thought about or, you know, you wouldn't do? Do you have any suggestions in that way? [00:23:00] Speaker C: The biggest thing for me that I would recommend to anyone going through, you know, an early diagnosis at that young of an age would be transparency. I think for me it was, yeah, like I said, I look back on the last almost 14 years and the things that I've learned from dating and cancer, I think have. I've learned something in every relationship that I've had. At the end of the day, I look at it as the one thing to me that has helped me in all those relationships has been that transparency. I think if you have physical side effects like a prosthetic testicle or a massive scar in your stomach, it obviously is a touchy subject to talk about. And I think at the same time, I go back to, if this person doesn't accept you for who you are, don't waste your time on that person and move on. And that's where, like I said, I look back on my relationships and there were times that, like I said, I, you know, I'm not going to regret anything that I've done in my life. At the same time, I've learned a lot of valuable lessons for where I want to go. And for me it was being transparent and being open and honest. And if they can't accept that from the start, then that's okay and just have to find someone else. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. I think another big thing is I feel like society puts a lot of pressure on you at the ages that we had our cancer diagnosis and even just a few years later to be in a long term relationship and get married and go through the motions. And I feel like the biggest thing I've learned is it's okay to take the time after going through something so traumatic and Learning about learning and loving yourself again and, like, understanding that it's okay to be single for a while if that's what you have to do in order to be in, like, a good relationship with someone. [00:25:03] Speaker C: Could not agree more there. I think one thing for me that, you know, I look back and I definitely. There were relationships where I jumped in a little too fast because, again, I had that mindset that, you know, I'm running out on time. At the same time, I go back to. I learned a hell of a lot because of the way I was going about those relationships, was with the mindset of, well, I just need to get in a relationship. I need to get married and I need to have kids because I'm 36 years old and I need to get life moving. At the same time, I go back to having a relationship evolve naturally rather than being forced are the ones that I think, in my eyes, are the ones that are going to be successful and last for a long time. So to me, it is, you know, I think it's really important to go back and make sure that you're going into it for all the right reasons and not forcing it because of Carly. Like you said, society standards of, hey, I have to be married at this. At this age, I need to have kids at this age. Rather, let it happen organically and naturally, and you'll be set up, I think, a lot better for the long run. [00:26:12] Speaker B: Well, like you've mentioned a couple of times, Carly, you have to be okay with where you are, right? And I think that that's a huge suggestion right there. So I'm wondering, is there anything I haven't asked you guys that you would want to share? Any tips, suggestions, things you've learned that I haven't asked you about? [00:26:30] Speaker A: I think one thing, which I definitely touched on it vaguely. But if you're going to be on those dating apps at this age, like Michael said, transparency is key. And a lot of I feel like it helps you because it doesn't put a lot of pressure on you to just tell your story immediately. But if you put that cancer survivor in your profile, it gives you the chance to let them come to you with any questions instead of being like, oh, I'm a cancer survivor and freaking them out right away. [00:27:01] Speaker C: I think for me, probably one of my biggest tips I would say or things that I would bring up is just the importance of fertility in general. And I know we talked about that, but that, to me, that's been honestly the one thing that's always been on my mind. This last 13, 14 years is if I can have kids or not. So to me, you talk about getting into a relationship, and you talk about, obviously, forever with this person. To me, it's. It's making sure that this person also understands on the other side of things what it all entails. And I think education is super important so that, you know, the person that you're dating, you know, especially from. From male to female, that. That. That female understands what the fertility process looks like, you know, because I. I think it's not a crystal ball, and it's not. It's not per. It's not. It's not a, you know, snap the fingers, and it just works. You know, I think there's, you know, there's a lot of people out there that, you know, try, you know, for a very long time to have children. And. And I've learned that, you know, I think, you know, making a child, creating a child. The one thing I've learned from this is that it is a true blessing to be able to have children. And to me, it's. It's the idea of. It's a. It's a magical thing that happens when a child is created. And I Just. To me, it's education. I think it's so important to make sure that everybody knows, I think, the happenings and everything that will happen within the process of IVF or iui. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think something that. I mean, I don't know if I'll ever be able to have kids. And my sister has offered to freeze her eggs for me. And I. At first I was like, that is what I want to do because I wanted my own kids. But I have now recently come to terms with, if I can't have kids of my own, I will adopt because there's kids out there that need someone. And so I will have a family in some way, so I'm not hurt by the fact that cancer took that from me. [00:29:14] Speaker B: That's awesome. Well, thank you both so much for joining us today, for being honest, talking about things that I know are not easy. And if anybody's out there listening and you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to us at Epic Experience. One of our main goals here is for everybody to know they're not alone in what they're going through. So thank you all for joining us, and we'll talk next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires of Living Beyond Cancer. For more information about Epic Experience and our programs or to donate, please visit our [email protected] Music for this podcast is provided by Moonshiner Collective. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us so we can share our story with more people. Also, be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you'll know when new episodes are released. We hope you come back and join us for our next episode. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Police still are not the family man. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Woke, we will rise once again.