[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experian's mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of hope, living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Police still are not slight family men's bridling wolves. We will rise once again.
Hello, everyone. This is Gail, aka Sunshine. Today we have two people with us. I'm excited to have a couple. Scott, who is the survivor, and his wife Vicki, who was the caregiver. So we're going to be talking to both of them and I'm really excited about that. So thank you both for joining us. Scott and Vicki, thank you.
[00:01:32] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: And I'm going to ask both of you individually to tell me a little bit about yourself. So, Scott, why don't you. We'll start with you.
[00:01:43] Speaker C: A little bit. Can she go first?
[00:01:47] Speaker B: You're going to be a problem, aren't you, Vicky? Yes, Vicki, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and include one fun fact if you can.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:01:56] Speaker D: Well, I'm a former teacher, so I've always considered myself kind of a caretaker.
I've been retired for about twelve years.
I was on a journey that I didn't ever imagine myself being on, but I handled it the best way that I could. One fun fact about me is I climbed to the top of Chichen Itza about ten years ago.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Oh my. How high is that?
[00:02:23] Speaker D: I don't know, but it was.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: But it was high.
[00:02:26] Speaker D: It was hard and it took a long time. The steps were narrow and. But it was so exhilarating to get to the top and look out and see this magnificence. It was so. I always like to tell that story because I don't think I can do it now. But I did it then and you did it myself.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Congratulations. That's awesome.
[00:02:45] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:02:46] Speaker C: It was. All right.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Scott, you ready?
[00:02:48] Speaker C: Yes, I am.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:50] Speaker C: I am a former government worker. I was in the military for a number of years, worked civil service for a number of years and retired. And a fun fact about me is that I do not have. I never graduated from high school, but if you google my name in the Lincoln Memorial, I am forever linked to the Lincoln Memorial because I was in charge of the restoration of the murals on the north and south facing walls. Inside the Lincoln memorial.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Very cool.
That is really neat. Thank you for sharing that. I did not know that about you. So what brings us here, of course, is that you're a cancer survivor. So tell us, Scott, a little bit about your diagnosis story when you were diagnosed kind of cancer and the treatment that you were on.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: I'd been.
During my routine physicals over the course of the years, I consistently had high liver enzymes, and so they were afraid that I was going to start developing liver cancer based on high enzymes and some other things that were going on with me. So I was being monitored for that. And I think it was May of 2020, they found an eight millimeter spot on my pancreas. And by December, when they redid the scan, six months later, it had gone grown to 23.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Gosh.
[00:04:18] Speaker C: I mean, it was really big. And so the doctor looked at it, and he was. He thought for certain that it was probably just some kind of ductile, benign thing, but he was trying to convince me to just have it biopsied and then go from there.
I knew what it was, and I think he did, too, but he didn't want to. So went through the surgery, he came back from pathology, and he came in the room, and it was. It's kind of weird, you know, dog, you don't see doctors that have really good bedside manners all the time, but this guy I had a really personal connection to, and, you know, I could tell that it was bad news. And when he said, you have stage three pancreatic cancer, now, you sit there for a minute, blood rushes out of your head, and you're like. And it just takes a minute for you to regain your composure enough to go, okay, what's next?
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
So what kind of treatment did you do? Chemo, radiation? What did they do?
[00:05:26] Speaker C: I had chemo. I had six months of chemo.
Yeah, yeah. And I had other complications. I mean, I went through five surgical procedures and six months of chemo during an 18 month period.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: It really kind of brutalized my body. You know, one was an infection related to the infection related to the surgery, and another was the centerline incision. Herniated. So you get fabricated. Then I had a heart attack, and.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: It was like, wow, you were playing surgery and complication. Bingo. And it sounds like you.
Oh, man. So.
Well, yeah. So, physically, obviously, that's how it impacted you. But mentally, emotionally, what was the impact of all those things? Not just the diagnosis, but all those complications that then came with the process than treatment.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: I don't really know how to describe it. I mean, I kind of took that in stride. I mean, it was, you have to ultimately accept what, what the diagnosis is and what the treatments are, and then you just make the decision to just keep putting 1ft in front of the other and it's. And you just continue to do that.
I think the most difficult part for me personally was the impact that this disease and the treatments that I was going through was having on my wife and of course, my kids and grandkids because it really hit them hard because, you know, you hear cancer and it's one of those scary words and, you know, they just, they had a difficult time dealing with it and it was hard for them, and it was hard to watch them go through it.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was going to say. I imagined it's hard on you watching them go through with it because you don't want to see them in pain anymore, then they want to be in that place.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: No, that was the worst part. But, you know, and on the other side of that coin, though, I feel a little bit fortunate in that. The diagnosis and the treatment gave me a lot of time to really kind of put things in order, you know? You know, a lot of people talk about having their trust funds and getting their will done and, you know, oh, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. Well, you know, when all of a sudden you're going through this treatment, it's like, okay, tomorrow's here.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:07:56] Speaker C: Time to get this stuff done. So I feel fortunate in that we had the time to get all the trust put together and all that, all the financials taken care of, and I'm, I'm happy about that part.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Well, good. And no evidence of disease right now. Can they say that for you?
[00:08:13] Speaker C: I am Ned. That's my favorite word.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: It is.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: I love ned.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Congratulations.
So, Vicki, how was this whole journey for you mentally, emotionally, again, all of it?
[00:08:29] Speaker D: Initially, I think I was shocked when even when they discovered the mass and we went in for a quick consultation with the surgeon and it was right before Christmas, and we're in the midst of COVID and I'm like, this is not happening. I think I was in big time denial, like, oh, it's nothing, but it's nothing. And when we arranged for him to have the surgery, which was right after Christmas, you remember COVID testing was done every, for every single thing. Well, he developed. He tested positive for Covid, but we had to delay it, like, 14 days. And I was at the point where, like, let's I just need to know what's going on. So when the surgery occurred, and, you know, it was a long surgery, and he was going to go in laparoscopically, and fortunately, he couldn't. And so they came out and said, oh, we're going to have to open him up and do it. It's going to take a little bit longer. So, of course, my anxiety and my.
My fear level increased 100%. And I'm sitting in a waiting room all by myself with a mask on because no family members were allowed during that time. So I felt really isolated and scared, and I'm like, okay, we'll just wait and see what happens. Surgery ends. You know, we have to wait a few days for pathology to come back. And. And like Scott said, when, when our doctor walked in, I could tell by his eyes that it wasn't going to be good news. And I think, once again, I kind of was like, is this. This is not real? And when he said stage three pancreatic cancer, I think everything just kind of went away for a second, and I was, like, trying to process and understand what the words were. And I'm like, what? And he said it, and he showed me the report, and I just stood there and I looked at the Scott, and I welled up with tears, and I was.
I kind of went numb for a few minutes, and he talked to us, and he said, you know, what's going to happen next? And we kind of talked through all of that, and he left. And Scott and I just kind of looked at each other. I think I was crying by that time, and he was trying to reassure me that he was going to be okay doing that for him.
And we just. I think we just sat there for 30, 40 minutes and didn't say anything because it was, so what do we say? How do we. What are our next steps? And immediately, it's like, okay, we have to let the kids know, and how are we going to tell them, you know, they can't be here. And. And I was a little panicked at that point. And I'm like, well, we'll just tell them this is what's happening and what the next steps are and reassure them that everything's a in good hands. You're in good hands. And. And I remember he. He needed some time alone, and I said, I just need to step out. And I remember walking out into the hallway and I lost it, but I couldn't do it in front of him because I thought, I can't. I can't, I can't fall apart right now. And I called. I called my daughter who lives in Alaska, and I just said. And I just told her. I said, sarah, you know, this is what's happening. And, you know, she just was silent, and we both were silent. And she's like, you got this, mom, and so does Scott. And I said, I know, I know. And I kind of went into, like, my brain switched. I'm like, okay, what do we have to do? I can't be sad, and I have to be strong for him. And what are the next steps? I want to know exactly about what kind of cancer this is and everything that I could. So what did I do? I got on Google, which I said, doctor Google.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:12:25] Speaker D: But I did. And, you know, and I just. My whole mindset kind of while I was at the hospital with him just switched to like, okay, we just started making a plan.
We called the other kids and we told them and. And we said, this is what we're doing. And they were like, okay, whatever we can do. But once again, I would go home alone. And he was at the hospital, and I was so scared. And I'm like, this cannot be happening. But it is. And we just have to pull together and we'll get through this. And once he recovered enough to come home, he did. And then he got an infection, and we had to go back. And again, it's during COVID and they're testing, testing positive. And I was get. I would get so frustrated with the nurses because they would be like, you can't be here. And I'm like, but I'm not leaving.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: Can I interrupt you just for a second?
[00:13:23] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: When she said that, we sat there for 30 or 40 minutes, and in stunned silence, she's never been quiet for 30 or 40 minutes.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: That's what cancer will do to you.
[00:13:35] Speaker D: Yes. So, you know, once we started on chemo, and I tried to learn as much as I could, and I tried to keep my emotions and feelings in check because I didn't want him to see how scared I was.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:53] Speaker D: Because we just, you know, we were going to do all these things, but there's no guarantee that everything's going to work the way you want it to. So there were. I had my moments in the car, in the shower, out for walks with my dogs. You know when your brain plays funny games with you when you go through something like this about what ifs?
But when I was with him, I tried my best to always be positive, and we're going to get through this, and you're going to be fine. You're too stubborn. Everything's going to be a.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: This is where your stubbornness is a good thing.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: She would go through this whole process about, yeah, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be fine. But, you know, I, rather than seeing that as, you know, her showing her strength, I saw that as her being in denial.
[00:14:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Speaker C: And it's interesting now.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: That's a good point. Did you talk about that as a couple? Did that, did you actually address that? So how did that go?
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Well, you know, when it really hit home was when I, when we were talking to the oncologist and, you know, we were talking about the chemo regimen, and she said, you know, there's no cures. She goes, there's only.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: She just said that flat out, yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker C: There is no cure. You're not going to be cured. There are only treatments. I'm like, okay, well, now I know where I can stand, you know, and so, you know, I just wanted to get the best years out of it with what I had left, and I absolutely refused to go on the Internet, so I am not, you know, the doctors had to tell me the last time we saw the surgeon, he goes, because I made it this two and a half year, or my. I passed the two year mark. My odds of making it to five years now are up to 18%. Is that what he said?
[00:15:46] Speaker D: Something like that.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: 18.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Seven, yeah, 18.
[00:15:50] Speaker C: 1818. Yeah.
But they, you know, before these were saying it, I've only got a 2% chance.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: Oh, wow.
[00:15:58] Speaker C: But, you know, I've always been a 1% kind of guy, so just.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Well, and you're stubborn, as we've established, and so you're not going to let those statistics keep you down, which is great. I mean, that is the quality to have in this situation. Absolutely.
[00:16:14] Speaker E: I hope you enjoy this episode of our campfires with Hope podcast. Here at Epic Experience, we make it our goal to serve the cancer community through our collective programs such as this podcast, our week long adventure camps, regional programs across the country, and thrive VR, a custom virtuality experience benefiting patients in cancer centers. If you would like to be a part of our community of supporters, please go to epicexperience.org and click donate.
Thank you for listening to campfires of stories of cancer with gratitude. Wingman, also known as Colin Farrow, executive director of Epic Experience. Epic Experience is a registered 501 organization.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: So how did this whole situation, both the diagnosis, the way you were both dealing with it on your own and then together, how did that, on the one hand, strengthen your relationship and then also, how did it present some challenges for you guys?
[00:17:17] Speaker C: You want to go first?
[00:17:19] Speaker D: I think.
I think it showed a vulnerability that I'd never seen from Scott because he was bearing.
All of his emotions are out there, even though he was facing it. Like, I know that I may not survive this, but. And I'm okay with it. While I, on the other hand, was, I don't want to face this, and I don't want to do this without you. And I would say that. And, you know, he ended up many times encouraging me, saying, you're going to be fine. It'll be okay. You're a strong woman. And I'm like, I don't even. I was like, I don't want to talk about it. You know, I would still kind of would slip into that denial thing, even though we were doing everything that we should be doing.
But I did see a side of him, too, that appeared very vulnerable, especially during chemo, when the treatments were. As they went on, they just were harder and harder on him. He was so tired, and he couldn't eat, and he couldn't drink water, and he couldn't get comfortable, and he looked so sick. And a funny story I remember coming home from because he had his treatments in Denver, and we were driving home, and I became the driver. All of a sudden, I was the person driving everywhere. And he made not.
It wasn't a mean comment, but it hurt my feelings, and I just started crying. He said something about how I should get over to the other lane. I mean, a funny little thing, right, right after. And he's been sitting hooked up to an iv all day, and all I'm doing is driving home.
But I think I was so vulnerable, too, and tired and scared that when he said that, I just started crying.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: And he's like, yeah.
[00:19:12] Speaker D: What did I say?
Yeah, sorry.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: It's.
[00:19:18] Speaker D: I'm doing my best trying to drive here. So things like, it was. It was a rollercoaster of emotions for me. There were times when I was like, I'm gonna do everything I can, and I'm going to learn as much as I can. And then other times when I felt like a puddle and I can't do anything and this is not happening to me, so.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: But did you guys talk about it at this time? I mean, it sounds like through it all, we did. Even though you had your moments of denial.
[00:19:45] Speaker D: Yes, we did.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: You were still able to come together on that.
[00:19:49] Speaker D: We did. And, you know, we didn't have long, drawn out conversations, but we did talk about it. And and he said, you know, it's going to be okay. And I said, I know it is. And I said, but, and I, I know you're not a quitter, and I know you're not going to give up and we're going to. We'll just get through this. So. Yeah, you know, but we didn't get real philosophical. I mean, there were a couple times.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: Yes, we did.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Okay, let's hear how you got philosophical, Scott.
[00:20:18] Speaker C: Well, I had to train her in what to look for, for her new boyfriend.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
You are planning ahead.
[00:20:27] Speaker C: Okay. I'm not going to be around forever. So, you know, if you go on a date and the guy says he forgot his wallet, walk out the door and let him pay for it, let him wash the dishes, don't, don't, don't get sucked into this whole thing. And there was, I've been giving her all kinds of good advice on what, what's next, you know, what she needs to pick up next, but into, in terms of our relationship and emotional impact that it had on me. And there, you know, you find, you really kind of find out how much a person loves you and how much they care when you are waking up from a drug induced sleep and that person's there and that person's the last one you see before you go to sleep. The first person to see when you wake up, the first person that's there if your mouth is dry. I, and sitting through those chemo treatments, I mean, and we'd go in there at 07:00 in the morning. They hooked me up to bags after bags, and we'd get out of there around 03:00 then I had another bag that I had to carry home with me and wear for another three days. And, you know, I mean, you can, you can mouth the words and say I love you, and you can feel the words, but you never really get a full grasp of the depth of the love for another person until you go through something like this, until you have this kind of experience.
And it's, for me, I think this really strengthened our relationship. And she's not allowed. And I told her that when she finally dies, that when we're up in heaven, I get her.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Right. She's already spoken for. Right.
[00:22:13] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:13] Speaker C: The other guy's got to wait in the back of the line.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Exactly.
So during the time that you were in treatment and going through all these things, I know for a while you probably weren't strong enough, but did you have outlets that you did individually or I guess like your own versions of self care. And did you do those individually, or did you. And did you do some of those together?
[00:22:38] Speaker C: I did a lot of sleeping, and, you know, what I had difficulty with? Probably the most difficult thing during the treatments was the people that are on the periphery of your life, they want to become involved. All of a sudden, they want to insert them back. They find out that you've got cancer. I call them the Muggles. So once the Muggles come back in and you spend so much time taking care of them and, you know, reaffirming and, you know, kind of supporting them, that you kind of don't do enough for yourself. So we eventually just had to shut the door and thank God for Covid, because then we had a legit excuse. Yeah, you can't come over. You're sick. Okay, I'm sick.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: You're not in our bubble. Yeah.
[00:23:26] Speaker C: And, yeah, my self care was just trying to get the rest and just getting my strength back. You know, that was primarily. I. I don't know. I'm not a huggy. I. It's tough to hug yourself.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: So how about you, Vicki? Did you have your own outlets?
[00:23:47] Speaker D: We have dogs, so they need. You know, dogs need a lot of attention, and so they were an outlet for me because, yeah, there were. I would just go for a long walk with our two dogs and just put my headphones on and just either listen to music or a podcast or nothing, and just walk and, you know, try and just clear my head that way. I would go to the gym and work out. I'd feel a little bit of guilt that I was doing these things to take care of myself because he was at home and looked so frail. But I knew that I needed to do some of those things for me so that I could take care of him. So I did, you know, make sure that I would go to the gym two or three times a day, try and walk every day. And then my very close group of lady friends were amazing. They were like, we're taking you to lunch. We'll keep you an hour, but you need to get out and let us do this for you. And reluctantly, I didn't want to do it, but then I thought, you know, why not? It's okay.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: Meanwhile, I'm laying in bed. I'm by myself, all alone.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: And I'm sure he gave you a guilt trip, because I'll be back.
[00:24:59] Speaker D: You can call me if anything comes up.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:02] Speaker D: You know, I knew that I needed to kind of look out for myself.
[00:25:07] Speaker C: Too, but she never answered the phone.
[00:25:10] Speaker D: There were we like to camp, and so we did do some one camping trip that was hard for him because he had to drive and hook up our, our camper, and. But we. It was so peaceful, and it was just the two of us and the dogs, and we. We were by the Arkansas river, and it was just lovely. It was so lovely. So I was happy that we did that. And then we decided we would do some quick little bike rides, and that didn't work out so well because I discovered I. Even though they say you never forget how to ride a bike, well, apparently you do. And it crashed and hurt my knee, and that was the bike riding. But so we did look for easy, you know, things that we could do together. Eventually, he was able to go on short walks with, with the dogs. And so we live in an area where that's possible to do without a lot of people around. So we did try and take care of each other in that way by getting some fresh air and some exercise.
[00:26:12] Speaker C: And I had to take care of her the entire time because this hurt, and I fell off the bike.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: I'm over here and listening to you guys. I imagine that humor plays a part in your relationship. Do you think that was a.
Did that come into play in terms of coping with this very serious situation? But do you think that humor played a part?
[00:26:38] Speaker D: Absolutely, I do. Yes, absolutely. Because he would say silly or funny things that would just get me laughing, and I would just shake my head and walk out of the room going, oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so happy that he hasn't lost his sense of humor and his sarcasm through all of this, because, I mean, who would this person be? So it did help. And we would just sit out on the deck and laugh and, you know, just enjoy each other's company, even though sometimes we were being feisty with each other.
[00:27:09] Speaker C: But one of the other things I told her was when I was going to be cremated, and she had to keep me in an urn on the mantelpiece and, you know, those big head sports posters, you know, oh, my God.
I said, you had to have a giant one of me on the wall. So when the boyfriends came over, he knows.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:27:28] Speaker D: Perfect. No.
So those were funny times. We all, while we were both trying to navigate this road that we never wanted to be on, we did have those moments, and that came later. It wasn't initially. Initially, it was just so overwhelming. But once we would get past six months and then a year came and then a year and a half, then we felt like we were kind of returning to who we were. But I think even now it's changed our relationship. I think we're more loving and kind and caring for each other than.
[00:28:04] Speaker C: When did that start?
[00:28:06] Speaker B: The sarcasm continues.
Is there anything that you would want to share with a couple who might be listening? Whether, you know, the husband has cancer and the wife is the caregiver or it's reversed, is there anything that you would want to share about either side of this whole scenario?
[00:28:28] Speaker D: I'll just share as being the caretaker for Scott to anyone else that may have to go through this. Just try and take care of yourself, even though it may feel like you might feel guilty or selfish, because all your focus tends to be on this person and they take all your energy and you want to comfort them and you want to take away the pain and everything that they're going through. And I think it's important, and I learned this, you have to take care of yourself, too. Give yourself some grace and say, I'm important in this, too, but I have to be healthy, both mentally, physically and emotionally, and go out with your friends and let people bring you food and let someone come and clean your house and go for a walk with your dogs and take care of yourself. I think that's a really important thing to do because I think caretakers don't tend to do that or do it very well.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Thank you.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: For me, I would say to find somebody that you can talk about cancer with because, you know, I mean, I already told you that I'm a vet, and so, you know, when we come back from combat, I. You can go to the BFW or the american legion disabled vets, and you've got somebody that's had some common experiences that you can. That you can talk with. But when I got this cancer diagnosis, I didn't know anybody. I knew. I didn't know one person that had ever had cancer. Certainly not nobody in my family had ever had cancer. And so I really didn't have that opportunity to kind of open up and share with people that it had the similar same experiences until I got to epic experience.
Epic experience was a godsend in my life. And, I mean, the staff there, the counselors there, and certainly the group from opportunity curve, they were, yeah.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Shout out.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I just love those guys to death. I mean, you know, sitting around the campfire and sharing our experiences and being able to open up and just. It was such.
It did so much to heal me that I can't express how grateful I am about having that opportunity. So thank you. You were one of my counselors there.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: You are welcome. It was an absolute pleasure watching. Watching what happens at camp, exactly what you're talking about. People coming in, not having maybe talked to anybody about it, you know, not having known anyone, and all of a sudden they're surrounded by 910 people who may not have the exact same diagnosis, but you've all been through cancer. You've all heard those words. You've been through some kind of treatment. You probably lost your hair, you felt sick. There's a camaraderie and a bond that happens. It just happens because you have that.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: So I never realized how hard you guys worked out there, too.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Well, thank you. You two have been absolutely delightful. Thank you so much for being open about the struggles, about how you got through it, for sharing things that I'm really confident are going to help another couple going through this. So thank you. I really appreciate it.
One final question, which is always the most serious marshmallows over a campfire, slow and steady or flaming crispy?
Scott, I'm gonna ask you first this time.
[00:32:16] Speaker C: Oh, me first.
Okay. Frankly, I would nuke them because I.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: There you go. That is an option. I should add new.
[00:32:29] Speaker D: Vicky.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: Okay, Vicki, how about you? Slow and steady.
[00:32:34] Speaker D: Oh, definitely love it. Yep. Yep.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much, both of you. Scott and Vicki, it has been a pleasure. And to those of you listening, until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
Thank you for listening to this episode of campfires of hope. Living beyond cancer. For more information about epic experience and our programs or to donate, please visit our
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America's fine police still are not the family man. Bright and woe, we will rise once again.
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