[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lu, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you listen to campfires of hope you living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:10] Speaker C: Hello, everyone. This is Gail, AKA Sunshine. Today we have Kristen Clifford joining us around the campfire. Kristen, thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: My pleasure. My name is Silverthorne, also in the Ms. World. Yeah. Also that's Kristin Clifford.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: Awesome. Well, first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, fun fact, anything you want to share? Just about your background.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: My name is Kristen Clifford. I'm an artist. I'm a part time professor at the New School here in New York City where I've lived since I was 18 years old.
I came to New York, I wanted to be a movie star.
And I have a wonderful life as an artist. And I'm the mother of two beautiful trans kids.
And a fun fact about me is that I just started weightlifting to failure.
Like crone weightlifting, like old lady weightlifting. Like, we're trying to build bones. So, like, I lift as much as I can and I only do it like four times.
[00:02:19] Speaker C: Awesome. When did you start that?
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Like, almost three months ago.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Good for you.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: It has changed me and made me more feel more healthy more than anything else I've done, honestly.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: Wow, that is really cool.
Well, unfortunately, the thing that brings us together is cancer. So let's talk a little bit about your story. When were you diagnosed? How did you find out? Treatment, all of that kind of stuff?
[00:02:52] Speaker A: I have in fact had three separate cancers.
I was diagnosed in 2016 with ovarian and uterine cancers.
And then in 2023, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
[00:03:09] Speaker C: The trifecta.
[00:03:11] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: So let's start with the first. Yeah, let's start with the first one. Ovarian and uterine. And they determined those were two separate primary cancers. Okay.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yes. So my partner's out of town, I wake up with the kids and I have, like, pain, major, like, pain in my right side. And I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, googling, getting the kids ready for school. I think it's a burst appendix.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Oh, God.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: And so I'm like, kids, I can't take you to school. We live in Queens. Like, I take them to subway to. On the subway to Manhattan to get to school.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: Oh, gosh.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: So it's like the older one, I'm like, you have to take the younger one to school today.
I'll be okay. I'm going to the emergency room. I'll be fine. Whatever I get there. They think I'm a pain seeker because I'm in so much pain. I'm like, please help me. They took my CA125 levels, and those were high, but they were still like, it could be appendicitis. And then they gave me an mri, and that showed liquid on the side where I had pain.
And then it turned out that they saw a tumor on the other side, on the other ovary.
[00:04:27] Speaker C: So you had the fluid on the right side where the pain was, but they saw the tumor on the other side?
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: So they can't actually diagnose, but they think what I had was, like, a burst cyst on one ovary.
[00:04:45] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: And. Which was causing the pain. And they see the liquid, but they can't tell what it. Right. And so. So I make. I meet a gynecological oncologist who's fabulous, and we make plans for surgery. And the surgery is going to be. We'll definitely take out the one with the tumor. The ovary with the tumor. She's going to slice and dice it while she's in there. And from there, she's going to see what else to do, like signing papers, like, saying, like, you can take out everything.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: Right, Exactly.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: If you need to give me hysterectomy, like, do what you need to do.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: And then I'm in the office, and she's like, is there anything else going on? And I was like, I'm a real know it all. Okay. And I was like. I was like, oh, I have a little pink discharge, but it's just perimenopause, I'm sure. Okay. She's a gynecological oncologist, and I'm telling her, like.
And she looked at me and she said, can I do a biopsy of your uterus right now? And I was like, sure, whatever.
And so she takes up this. It's like a really, really, like, it's like a foot long, but super, super thin, and they stick it up through your vagina, up into your cervix, and they, like, pull out this, like, tiny, little very thin, and then put that. And then she squeezed it out into, like, a saline, you know, a specimen jar. I even took a picture of it. Like, I took a Selfie of myself. Like, here I am with my uterine worm.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Oh, gosh.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: And. And then she called me, like, the day before the surgery and said that I had uterine cancer and that we were definitely doing a hysterectomy. A hysterectomy. But I didn't really have the word cancer until then. It was like, you, like, stuff's going on.
And I know people don't necessarily like the words pink discharge, but I will say them, like, over and over and over again, because those words, like, saved my life because, you know, and now we know more about menopause and people are talking about it more. But I literally. I just thought, well, things get worse. Wacky at menopause. Who knows? I'm sure it's fine. I had no idea that pink discharge was, like, a warning sign.
[00:07:14] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Of uterine cancer.
[00:07:17] Speaker C: Wow. So they ended up taking out everything.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:20] Speaker C: And then tested. I'm guessing they tested the. The growth on the ovary. Ovary.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: On the ovary. Yes. And that.
And that was cancerous.
That also, like, fell apart as they were taking it out, so they had to do a full, like, a wash and the.
But that, like, that's still, like, my big worry is that there was just, like. Yeah. Everywhere.
It was not, like, contained.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: The tumor burst as they were taking it out.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: So next. What happens?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: So then I go into immediate menopause.
[00:08:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: And I was in my 40s. It was in my early 40s. That was so rough.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: And. And then I started chemotherapy about a month later.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:11] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: And did rounds and rounds of chemo. And, you know, the.
I had carboplatin and Taxol.
It turns out I'm allergic to Taxol. The second time I had it, I stopped breathing.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Oh, gosh.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Crash card it.
And I was. I've been like, I'm making a documentary about my experience with this whole thing. And, like, as soon as I. I was the friend, and I was like, I couldn't breathe. And I was like, roll. Roll the camera. Like, get your camera.
The nurses. The nurses were not happy. That name with me then. But.
And then, you know, I. I survived all of that. I got through it.
I think a lot of people.
My experience is similar to a lot of people's, which is, like, when the chemo is over, you still feel so bad. And it's even like you're. It's like, worse. You're getting worse and worse, and everybody's like, you're done with chemo. Yay. And that part of time was really difficult for me emotionally because I felt like nobody understood that I was like, still in treatment.
[00:09:23] Speaker C: So they expected you to be fine and be out, and that is not how you felt.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Yes. And just, you know, not with any malice. Just.
[00:09:33] Speaker C: No.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: People don't understand what treatment is like. Right.
[00:09:36] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: So, well.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: And everyone responds differently. And like you said, it takes a while for that poison to get out of your body. So there are effects. Even though it cures the cancer, it can have all these other side effects. So did you start your fall like every three months and then every six months and then you started that whole follow up plan?
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Yes. So I started the whole follow up. I did genetic testing and I have two sisters with breast cancer.
[00:10:07] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: I'm. I'm the youngest of eight children and four girls, four boys. Wow. All the boys names begin with J and all the girls names begin with C, for Jesus Christ. My mom said that was.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Well, at least they had a plan.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: They did. They had. They had a plan.
So.
So.
[00:10:32] Speaker C: And nothing. You had. You had nothing until 2023.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Yes. Nothing. And I'm not. Not BRCA. The doctor was looking for all of these other syndromes. She's also like a research person, so she was like, maybe I'll find something in your family, like, as soon as a new test comes out. I get it. And I was just getting tested all the time. She did stop the chemo a little bit early because I was having such bad brain. Yeah, brain fog. I was like, the chemo brain was so bad.
[00:11:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: And anyway, so then, yes, every three months, every six months, even with my breasts. I had had a biopsy before that had turned out to be negative before any of this.
And then 2023 comes along and sure enough, there's something.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: So on a normal mammogram.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Yes, yes, normal mammogram. There's a little spot. Go in for a biopsy and it turns out it's positive.
This was just at that moment where they were putting patients results online and not really realizing that patients could see it before the doctors could. It was like, like, yeah. Now they do it and they're like. They send you a letter. Like, you may notice that the results are there beforehand, whatever. Yeah, they didn't really know what they were doing. And I found out, like on a Friday. I was like, what? Like, oh, yeah, it was a lot.
[00:12:06] Speaker E: I hope you enjoy this episode of our Campfires of Hope podcast. Here at Epic Experience, we make it our goal to serve the cancer community through our collective programs such as this Podcast our week long adventure camps, regional programs across the country, and Thrive VR, a custom virtual reality experience benefiting patients in cancer centers. If you would like to be a part of our community of supporters, please go to epicexperience.org and click donate.
Thank you for listening to Campfires of Hope Stories of cancer with gratitude Wingman, also known as Colin Farrow, Executive director of Epic Experience. Epic Experience is a registered 501c3 organization.
[00:12:51] Speaker C: I can imagine. Especially because in a sense, it's seven years. Right. And five years is the golden mark. And now all of a sudden, not. Not so much. Did you do treatment for that as well? Or did they do a bio. I mean, a lump resection?
[00:13:09] Speaker A: They.
I had the opportunity to do a lumpectomy.
[00:13:14] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: It was small enough. Good.
And I chose to do a double mastectomy.
[00:13:21] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Partly because I didn't want to do radiation, partly because I felt like if I did, I just be waiting for it to come back.
[00:13:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: I just. I mean, I'm still waiting for it to come back, but I just feel like I would be worse. So much worse.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: And because of the stuff in my family.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: Well, absolutely. You know what I was thinking?
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yes. They don't know. Like, and at first I was going to just have surgery and go flat.
And then, like, when I had had ovarian cancer, I talked to my doctor, was like, you know, ovarian and uterine. I was like, you know, if and when I get breast cancer, I'm just going to take them off. I have two kids. I breastfed, you know.
[00:14:08] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Done with them. But when it came time to do it, I wound up choosing, like, the most complicated surgery, which is a double mastectomy with immediate deep flap reconstruction, where they take, like, blobs of fat from elsewhere on your body.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: In this case, my mama belly and shape breast shapes out of it.
And attach those to your chest. And they attach the.
They attach the blood vessels and everything. So it's living tissue.
[00:14:55] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: I had gone to a holiday party and two people I knew, but not super well, both had breast cancer. And one had an implant and the other had D up. And I was like, can you guys come in the bathroom with me?
I was like, can I feel you guys up? And they let me, like, at the same time. And I had like an implant in one hand and my friend's like, natural fat in the other. And it just felt so much nicer.
[00:15:24] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: And honestly, by that time, I had been.
I gotten separated before I had breast cancer. I'd been married for 21 years and I got separated. And I mean, it was partly.
Was partly like vanity and ego and like, will anyone love me if I don't have breasts?
[00:15:45] Speaker C: Like, oh, well, yeah, well. And you just touched on what I was going to ask about next. What were the mental and emotional impacts of this whole situation? I mean, being diagnosed at all. But the particular things that we're talking about, the female reproduction and breasts and all that, how did that impact you?
[00:16:08] Speaker A: It was so, so hard. It's still so hard, but it was so, so hard.
You know, we're fighting in this country about what gender is, and I have trans kids. And at the same time, I'm like losing everything that was, like, supposedly making me a woman.
Right.
Was I still a woman without these body parts, without these hormones?
[00:16:42] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Without estrogen, without anything.
So it made me. And I'm somebody who's always been interested in gender and sexuality. It's something that I make work about. But my. My personal experience of it was.
I was shocked that I chose to have reconstruction.
[00:17:06] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: I. And people told me, they're like. When I had. When I had been kind of like, oh, I'll just go flat. They're like, yeah, I don't know about you. You'll see. You'll see what it's like. And boy, were they right.
[00:17:19] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: I wasn't. I felt like I'd lost so much.
[00:17:24] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: I just felt like I'd lost so much. I'd lost my uterus, my cervix, my ovaries, my juiciness from the estrogen. I'd lost my marriage, my partner.
[00:17:41] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: I. My kids were getting older, so I was like losing the little kidness of them. I just felt like I couldn't lose one more thing.
[00:17:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: And also I love fashion and I just the shape of things, you know.
[00:17:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:17:59] Speaker D: Well.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: And there we fill out sweaters more nicely.
So how were you able to overcome these feelings of self. Low self worth? What made a difference?
Was it primarily getting the surgery or was there more to it?
[00:18:19] Speaker A: There was definitely more to it. When I.
When I feel like my experience is very much about my female body and my. My experience being raised as a person with a uterus. And that experience includes sexual assault and rape.
And I was an alcohol. And. And that happened when I was a teenager and I was an alcoholic for most of my life. I didn't admit that, but I drank way too much.
[00:18:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: But by the time I was diagnosed, I knew I was drinking way too much and I was trying to stop And I couldn't really.
[00:19:00] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: So I stopped drinking after I had cancer the first time.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: Completely just, completely just stopped.
[00:19:09] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: And that is the gift that cancer gave me.
[00:19:16] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: That like cancer gave me the gift of myself, of really having to like look at myself and not self medicating and go into like, I've been in therapy, but like going into therapy with someone who specialized in sexual assault, doing EMDR therapy, which is eye movement is amazing.
That's something that helped me a lot.
And just having to accept like, and being lucky that I was. Did like, I did.
What is it called? Like positive.
Positive something therapy.
[00:20:01] Speaker C: Yes. I don't remember the exact term, chemo brain, but yes, I know it's not positive psychology. There you go.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Psychology. I worked with a social worker who did positive psychology and she really helped me like reframe.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: Oh great.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Reframe from the negative to the positive. Reframe. And so that was a skill that I learned.
I did go into like a 12 step program only a few years ago.
And that has helped a lot. Like acceptance. Like, you know, cancer teaches you we are not in control of things, right?
[00:20:43] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: And it's not that we give up all of our.
It's that we learn what we can change and what we can't change. We learn to accept the things that we can't change. Just like that prayer.
[00:20:59] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: We accept the things we can't change and. And we try to actually do something about the things that we can.
[00:21:06] Speaker D: Exactly.
Yeah.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: Where along the way did you hear about Epic?
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. It wasn't until I had breast cancer.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: So after 2023, basically. Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Yes. So also like ovarian, uterine, not popular cancers. Breast cancer. Super popular cancer.
And so like when you get breast cancer, everybody's like, did you hear about this? Did you hear about this? Did you hear about this? Nobody said that to me before.
So somebody messaged me online and was like, because I love the outdoors and that's very healing for me. So also like, like spending time resting in the outdoors was something that I was really making sure that I was doing in my life.
And somebody was like, you like, they sent me a list of a bunch of places and then and wrote like, epic is the best. And I was like, really?
I'm going to apply to that one first.
And yeah. So that's how I heard about it. I was like, it was on social media. Somebody who was and wasn't even like a good friend.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: That's amazing.
I love that. So you were able to attend just this last summer, if I'm not mistaken, Right?
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: And how was it? Did it meet your expectations?
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Exceeded them a million times.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: So you spent a week with what, 10, 10 other survivors?
[00:22:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:42] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Another survivors. A mix of men and women and a mix of different kinds of cancer.
There were three different people that had the same blood cancer, and they were.
[00:22:55] Speaker C: Psyched way because they met someone else who. Yeah, exactly.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Yes, there were a couple other people. I mean, obviously everybody's experience is so different, as you say, like, and we. Everything is so different. But we were really able to kind of bond over, like, kind of on the side, like, kind of bond over, like, oh, the women with breast cancer chit chat. But the experience, epic was so amazing. And the staff was so amazing at kind of leading us through, very gently through what brings us together and concentrating on the positive things that bring us together and concentrating on positive things. Like acceptance.
[00:23:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: I mean, it was epic, emotionally. That's what was epic. I mean, the adventures were epic also.
[00:23:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: But you know, you see the pictures. The river. Oh, my gosh, the Whitewater, you know, like, I love that.
But what was really epic was my.
My just kind of internal acceptance. It was. It really helped me to deepen my acceptance of myself.
[00:24:24] Speaker C: So it took that self love a deep. A step deeper, basically.
[00:24:28] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:24:29] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: I really felt like when I had breast cancer, I was like, I've done this before. I'm fine. Like, I didn't really take care of myself emotionally or mentally.
And suddenly there I am in this beautiful place with these friendly, wonderful people from all over the country in this amazingly supportive atmosphere where I'm not allowed to even pick up after myself.
And that really gave me the support system to be able to look at myself again and be like, oh, oh, oh, I have some acceptance to do. Yeah, I. I still have some work to do.
I'm kind of ignoring this. I'm actually sad that my reconstruction didn't necessarily look as good as I wanted it to look. Like one side looks good, the other side does not really.
You know, and it's kind of like, okay, that's. That's it.
That acceptance of and knowing that cancer isn't the only thing that we are.
That we are not our cancers.
[00:25:50] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Was also just something I feel that was like, really huge because I.
I, like, I'm making a film about my experience, so I'm like, I'm using my cancer in my work, but also it's not all that I am.
[00:26:15] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Like, I wasn't Born that way.
[00:26:20] Speaker D: Right.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Like, we're not born with self judgment, we're not born with self loathing.
You know, we get that from the world many different ways.
[00:26:32] Speaker D: Right.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: That our society is not healthy. You know, and certainly I would also, you know, again, bringing this back to my experiences being someone who, who was brought up in a. As a woman, and I am a woman. Like, my experience with like assault and patriarchy and harassment and never living up to the beauty standards. Like, all of those things are related to cancer. Like, especially the beauty standard stuff. Like, it's so hard for us. Like, oh my God, our skin turns to crepe paper and our hair falls out.
[00:27:16] Speaker C: Falls out. Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: And like we have all of our body parts taken off and we're supposed to like, look like Nicole Kidman. I mean, like, in what world? Like, we know that those beauty standards are not realistic. We know that everything's photoshopped, but at the same time, it's in the back of your head.
[00:27:39] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: Were you able to bring that new depth of acceptance and self love down off the mountain, so to speak, and keep it going in your everyday life?
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. I won't give away anything, but I have.
I do have a little memento from EPIC that I keep on my bedside table.
And yes, as a, as a reminder.
And a reminder not just of the things that I learned from myself, but of all of the people that I learned those things with.
[00:28:22] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Like, like a couple of us are moms and like, like, like bonding over being a sick mom and really wanting to do the things that we wanted to do for our kids.
There was someone with stage four and she's so bright and beautiful.
[00:28:53] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: And I can't remember what the letters are. It's non curable nc and she's full of hope. She's like, those are just letters on a piece of paper. What do I. Like, what do they know?
[00:29:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: I think that is one of the biggest parts of that whole experience is being there together, learning from each other, knowing you're not alone. Right. I mean, that is. That's a huge takeaway. I'm so glad that you came away with that. That is. That's huge.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: If. Is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you would want to share with some. A cancer survivor who's listening or even a caregiver. But since we're focusing on. On survivors, is there anything.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Survivorship? Yeah, I mean, I think that survivorship. I'm still learning what survivorship is and I'm. I'm still learning and. And. And learning to not just brush it all away, like, oh, yeah, like, to own that.
[00:30:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Yes. I'm a cancer survivor. I am in survivorship. That is where I am in. And that is its own place of being.
It's different than treatment. It's different than immediately after.
It's.
It's its own thing. Like, there's a couple of Instagram accounts I follow, like, the cancer patient.
They just have very funny memes.
[00:30:35] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: And that actually, like, makes me feel better. So I guess I would want. Like, I would want. I guess I would want your listeners.
I want everybody to know that just because it's over doesn't mean it's actually over.
And that many of us are still scared and suffering from the effects of the medications that we have to be on.
[00:31:10] Speaker C: Mm.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: I didn't get into that, but I had very bad experiences with some of the medications.
And.
And that. That is, like, to me, that's treatment. Like, if you're on a medication that makes you feel horrible, you're still in treatment.
[00:31:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: And there are people that don't think that that's true. They're like, oh, well, you have to take your pill. It's like, no, this is actually cancer treatment.
[00:31:42] Speaker D: Right. Exactly.
Yeah.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And to be gentle with us. Just to be gentle with us.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: Yes, definitely.
Thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate your vulnerability, your honesty. I am so glad that you have. You are still learning acceptance, as we all are. Right. It's all about that honesty and not trying to push it under the table. I had a similar experience in terms of. I'm not going to let cancer define me, but I do have to admit that it's at least part of my experience. Right.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:21] Speaker C: It's all part of it. So thank you very much for sharing that.
I always end with asking one last question. Marshmallows over a campfire. Slow and steady or flame and crispy?
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Oh, slow and steady. I find a nice spot with the coals.
Very turning the whole time.
So it's soft on the inside. Golden.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: And as a true artist, you just painted a picture. Thank you very much. Well, Kristen, I appreciate so much you spending time with us today for sharing your story, and I wish you the best as you continue your survivorship.
[00:33:08] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. And I just. The one last thing I want to say is.
[00:33:12] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: Thank you to Epic Experience.
Thank you so much to everyone who.
Who works there, who volunteers, who makes it all what it is, because it really is like a place that is full of the most care and everything is so thoughtful and the way that Epic started was through tragedy and it makes us all.
It helps so many people and I can only help that my survivorship can help somebody else.
[00:33:51] Speaker C: Yeah, pay it forward right?
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:33:57] Speaker C: I so appreciate you being here. And to those of you who are listening, until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond Cancer.
[00:34:10] Speaker F: Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires of Hope Living Be Beyond Cancer. For more information about Epic experience and our programs or to donate, please visit our
[email protected] Music for this podcast is provided by Moonshiner Collective. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us so we can share our story with more people. Also, be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you'll know when new episodes are released. We hope you come back and join us for our next episode.
[00:34:43] Speaker C: America.
