[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as Mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic Experience.
Epic experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you in the campfires of hope, living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing and empowerment. Through stories and education, we aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. This is Gail, aka Sunshine. Today we're going to talk about what it's like to go through cancer as a healthcare professional. And the professional we have joining us today is Sarah Marion lucking, aka Rockstar. So, Rockstar, thank you so much for joining us around the campfire.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: Thanks, sunshine.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: So, first, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and please include one fun fact.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: All right, so I am a dermatologist by trade. That is how I was traded in my healthcare profession. And I'm a mom of four young boys. And one fun fact is that this summer, my husband and I traveled to 16 states in our minivan with our four children.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Oh, my.
[00:01:54] Speaker C: We survived.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: You survived. Now, can you give me one highlight from that? Because that does sound quite adventurous.
[00:02:00] Speaker C: Oh, I think our big highlight was hiking the Bryce Canyon trail, the hoodoo trail. And my four year old turned to me and said, mom, hiking the hoodoos is hard.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: True statement.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: It was hard.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: So also, give us a little about your cancer brief and where that fits in with being a mom of four. That must have added a whole nother element to that. So tell us when you were diagnosed, what your diagnosis was, what your treatment did, you did all that kind of stuff.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: I was diagnosed with inflammatory breast cancer in March of 2022 when I was breastfeeding our then three month old son. I did chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomy with lymph, no dissection, and I went flat. Then I did 36 rounds of chemo, and I had my ovaries, uterus and tubes removed. And that was because I'm estrogen positive and I carry the braca mutation, an inflammatory breast cancer. Or I'll say IVC, is more rare and aggressive. It happens in one to 5% of breast cancer diagnoses, but it has the 10% portion of deaths for breast cancer, and the prognosis is poor. It's five year survival is 40%. So I'm at high risk of recurrence. I've been on a laprib for a year for my braca mutation, and now I'm on a bemacyclib, which is a CDK four six inhibitor for two years, and I'm no evidence of disease, and I still get regular PET scans. Thank you.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Congratulations. Well, and I met Sarah marion about a year ago, and I can say you all are not looking at her, but her hair is so much longer. It has grown. It's lovely. So I am curly, very curly. So I'm so happy to hear that you are still no evidence of disease. That's awesome.
[00:03:51] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: So, as you were going through this journey, what would you say was the most challenging part? Was it mental, emotional, physical combination of all of the above?
[00:04:01] Speaker C: A little bit here and there. So first is definitely. I mean, the emotions. All the emotions, all the feelings, the anger, the guilt, the fear, the resentment. I'm looking at my three month old, wondering if I'll make it to his first birthday. I had to wean really quickly, and that really felt just, like, such a loss to me.
And then the physical part of it, I had a couple. I had a woman infection, and then as a healthcare provider, I got an infection on my head, and I had this rash on the back of my head, and I had huge lymph nodes. And so I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, my breast cancer has come back. It's on my head. I'm dying. I'm actively dying. And it had a really atypical presentation, and then days go by, and finally we're like, it's shingles. I had radiation, and so I was just so stressed with radiation, all of it. And so it was shingles. Just an atypical presentation.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: But if you want to go out.
[00:04:57] Speaker C: A dermatologist, give them a rash on the back of their head.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, I can imagine that was quite stressful, especially as a dermatologist. I can imagine.
[00:05:07] Speaker C: So painful.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
So how has survivorship affected your daily life? As a mom of four, how has it affected your social life? Let's start there first.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: I think it definitely deepened my relationships. I mean, when you go through something really hard, you realize that everybody goes through hard things. And it just gave me the space and the time to talk to people about it. And really, we had a common language. Even though they might not have cancer, they might have had another issue in their family or their personal life. And so made my relationships a lot deeper, and we just had such an outpouring of love from the community. Everyone just came and helped with food and holding the baby and rides for the kids and gifts and offers a breast milk during the breast milk shortage. I mean, my gratitude is so deep for everyone who helped us. It was amazing.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: And I know as a mom of four young boys, your social life a lot of times probably revolves around them. Did it affect also your friendships with people outside of your immediate family?
[00:06:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I made more time for friends. Like, my friendships kind of deepened, and I think that it brought me closer to people and it showed me how much I meant to them, which I just didn't really think about before. And it was very beautiful.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's neat. How did it impact you professionally? So we've already said you are a healthcare professional. You are a dermatologist by trade. How did this whole experience affect your professional life?
[00:06:43] Speaker C: I mean, before I was diagnosed, I was burnt out. It's so common in healthcare. So many of us are burnt out. Healthcare providers never take days off. We don't take sick days. We are givers. So we are known for just not putting ourselves first. And I was juggling patient care and being a mom. And I think that what I want everyone to know is that we all have an intrinsic value that is worth more than our profession. We are human being, not doing. And we forget that sometimes with this skill that we've trained ourselves to do. One question I get asked about a lot is, are you back to work yet? Are you back to work as a dermatologist? And right now what I'm doing is prioritizing my health and being present for my family, working on being an IBC advocate, and I'm taking all the information that I learned and trying to help other people.
Like, I've written a website, and now I'm working to help other people. It's called health through cancer, to give them access to all the information and tools that I learned. And for me, with being a healthcare provider, it was a blessing, because I knew that I either had IBC or had an infection. And so it got me to my diagnosis a lot faster than a lot of other people.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:07:56] Speaker C: Some people get treated with antibiotics for months before they realize that it's actually breast cancer.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:08:01] Speaker C: And like I said, it's so aggressive. And so I had a leg up in that standpoint, and I was very lucky for that. But it was also really scary because when I was in my training, I learned that, oh, you get IBC and you die. So I really had to unlearn that information that this is old knowledge, the survival rate is a little bit better. And they also had learned all these terrible side effects to all these medicines. Right. And so every time I would get a chemo medicine, I'd be convinced, like, well, this is going to happen. This is the side effect I'm going to get. So it was a little bit of, I had to unlearn what I had been taught, and then I just had to do it afraid.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Do it afraid.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: Even though all these bad things can happen, what was my choice?
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Have you struggled at all with, I don't know, how much of your identity was as a dermatologist prior to this? And now that you're not a dermatologist, has that been a struggle at all for you?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: That's a great question.
Yes. I think a lot of my identity was tied up in being a healthcare professional.
When you're a doctor, people will be like, oh, Dr. Lucking, or doctor this.
Even sometimes I'll go and get my infusions now, and they'll say like, oh, Dr. Lucking, how are you? And I'm like, I'm just a patient, guys. And sometimes, too, I have to remind my healthcare team, please just talk to me like I'm a patient, because I don't know everything that you know. I know what I know, but I don't know what's new in the field, and I don't know oncology, and I'm still learning a lot.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Interesting. So did you find they made certain assumptions because they knew you were a doctor, so maybe you didn't explain things as much as they would have to someone else? Is that what you mean?
[00:09:44] Speaker C: Sometimes when I had my information session, I would sometimes say, please just tell me everything you would normally say. I might ask questions that are a little bit more random than other people, but please tell me what you would normally say. I went the normal spiel.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow, interesting.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: I think the other thing, too, is I had this knowledge that was more traditional, and so I knew that my cancer was so aggressive that I really wanted to go further into learning about complementary healing. I felt like I was fighting for my life here, so I wanted to do it all. So I found healing and strength and movement and fasting and nutrition and mindfulness and spirituality. I tried things like acupuncture and reiki and qigong, and so I was really open to it all, and that really helped me take ownership and try something new.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Had you been open to those things before, or is this something that came up really, as you were going through treatment?
[00:10:42] Speaker C: Oh, I had never tried none of it. I mean, I was like, okay, yeah, they sound great, but I had never tried it.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Right. Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. Do you think you were more open to it because you had all the medical side of it, the traditional side of it? So maybe there was this more openness. Hey, let's try this, too.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: I think so. And I think I had a friend who encouraged me to try certain things, too. And she's a survivor as well and a practitioner in the healing arts as well. So she just kept telling me, just, sarah, marion, be open to receive and just try.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: That's awesome. So where along your journey did you hear about epic experience?
[00:11:25] Speaker C: Early on, I found out about it from a friend from medical school who had breast cancer a few years earlier. I contacted her when I got diagnosed, and she recommended it. And she actually volunteers at the camp.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: That's right. Dr. Cheesett.
So what expectations did you have? I don't know how much she told you so before you went to camp, what expectations did you have of what you were going to be experiencing up there?
[00:11:55] Speaker C: I didn't really have any expectations. She didn't tell me too much, and she told me it a year before. And so I went around my one year diagnosis anniversary, and I just was excited to focus on myself and take a break from the kids and enjoy and play in the snow. Those are my expectations.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Mine too. Playing in the snow was, like, top number one expectation. That's awesome.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: We had so much snow at our camp.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Yes, you did.
So going up there with no expectations, you were kind of like a clean slate. So what did you take away?
What was the biggest aha moment I guess you had while you were up there? And how have you been able to incorporate that now that you've been back home?
[00:12:41] Speaker C: It was like being a kid again. I felt like it was such a gift. I didn't have to drive anywhere or plan anything or cook anything. And it was just this beautiful gift that I could be a kid and just have fun and experience every minute, and I didn't have to plan or think, and I could just be right there in that minute and savor every minute. That was amazing.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: And I remember you just smiling, just enjoying it. So how have you been able to take that back home, and if so, how?
[00:13:20] Speaker C: Yes, I think it's obviously harder when there's a lot more going on, but I definitely have been able to do that. I mean, we've had snow here in Pennsylvania, and.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: I got that feeling back the other night. I went for a walk on my own, and the snow's falling and it's soft and it's quiet and just feeling my feet crunching in the snow and feeling that joy.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome.
Is there anything else I haven't asked you about that you would want to share, in particular with someone who is a healthcare professional who might go through the same experience, but also to any survivor who might be listening, I think.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: The biggest thing is just remember how amazing our bodies are. I mean, it feels like your body's let you down because you've had cancer. But there are so many processes in our body that are amazing, that are healing us every moment and protecting us every moment of every day. And what I learned through a lot of my readings is that we can kind of boost that effect. And that's amazing. So don't forget how incredible you are.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: I love it. That's awesome.
Well, we always ask this very important question at the end. Marshmallows over a campfire. Slow and steady or flaming crispy?
[00:14:36] Speaker C: Slow and steady. But also, I just want the chocolate. Give me the dark chocolate.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: So really, it's not about the marshmallow.
[00:14:45] Speaker C: It was never about the marshmallow.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: It was never about the marshmallow. We're going to end on that. It was never about the marshmallow. Well, Rockstar, thank you so much for joining us.
It's very interesting to hear what it was like going through this as a professional, as someone in this field who is on the other end, right? Who is providing the healing. And now you're having to trust these people who are helping you heal. I can imagine it adds a new layer to the whole experience, I'm sure.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: And it was so humbling, and I'm so grateful for everyone who took care of me. And that's just another layer of humility and gratitude I have for my whole healthcare team.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: That's awesome. Well, thank you, everyone for joining us. Until the next time we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
[00:15:43] Speaker D: Thank you for listening to this episode of campfires of hope.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Living beyond cancer.
[00:15:47] Speaker D: For more information about epic experience and our programs or to donate, please visit our
[email protected] music for this podcast is provided by Moonshiner Collective. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us so we can share our story with more people. Also, be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you'll know when new episodes are released. We hope you come back and join us for our next episode.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: With some ghost of America police still on our family men, bride and woke, we will rise once again. Close.
