[00:00:08] Speaker A: My name is Nancy Farrow, also known as mama Lou, and I'm the founder of Epic experience.
Epic Experience mission is to empower adult cancer survivors and thrivers to live beyond cancer.
I hope that as you in the campfires of hope, living beyond cancer, you find hope, healing, and empowerment through stories and education. We aim to guide those impacted by cancer and more importantly, offer love and support to anyone out there who needs it.
This is beyond cancer.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. This is Gail Aka. Sunshine. Today we have Gretchen Simpson joining us around the campfire. Gretchen, so glad to have you with us.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I've been looking forward to this.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Awesome.
So first, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, including your background. Now, Gretchen and I met a little over a year ago right? Yes. When I volunteered at her camp. So I'm really excited to have you with us today, but tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, where you live now, if you have kids, those kind of things, and please include one fun fact.
[00:01:47] Speaker C: All right. I live in the pacific northwest and in the very center of the state of Washington. I work at central Washington university in the health sciences department as part of the paramedic program. So I'm an instructor there, and I have two grown boys, and I like to say I recover from all my activities by going into the wilderness or my garden. They do kind of the same thing for me.
Oh, recently, an empty nester as well. So that is hard with the capital h, but that is good. And that is a little bit about me.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: So are you doing more of the gardening and wilderness activities now that you are an empty nester?
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. That fills up my soul, too, as my boys did. I'm happy for them as they're trying to figure things out, but absolutely. I get lost in my garden.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Well, what's one fun fact that you can share about yourself?
[00:03:00] Speaker C: One fun fact? I don't know if it's fun. I was thinking about this. I love socks.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Like, what kind of socks? This is fun.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: I like warm feet, but I love people go on vacations and they get, like, the t shirt and the hat. I go on vacations and I get the socks.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: So my last pair of socks, which I've been wearing a lot lately, are from very cool.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Do they have a picture of Elvis on them?
[00:03:36] Speaker C: They do, but the big hair swag going across, kind of the iconic look of him, and then it says graceland. So it's kind of interesting. A friend had bought me a pair as I started my cancer journey with the pink, and it said warrior. Another one said courageous. And so when I would go into my treatments, I would put those on, kind of like suiting up because you're laying in the bed for a long time during treatments, or I was, and those socks were kind of like my armor.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:04:11] Speaker C: Form, and they were really comfortable. So now I've gotten some for my birthday, I've gotten some for a gift, and now I look for them. I have pickleball socks. I've got Easter socks.
I love it.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Well, speaking of putting on armor for treatment, tell us a little bit about your diagnosis story.
What symptoms were you experiencing? Kind of the surgery, treatment, journey, all of that?
[00:04:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I was self diagnosed. It started in the kind of March of 2020 when I would get pain in my left breast. And of course, it always happened at night. I would go to sleep and forget about it the next day. So one night I said to no one out in the middle of nowhere, if you're going to hurt, make it during the day, and I will make an appointment because I keep forgetting. Next day I woke up and sure enough, I had a pain in my left breast. And I went, oh, yeah, I made that promise.
I guess I got to make the call. So that's when it started. But I did not get in until the fall of that year, 2020.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Wait, this was March and you this.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: Was springtimeish of 2020, didn't get in to get a mammogram. And this is a good part of the story that people should hear because I live in a small town and bless our little hospital. I'm so grateful for it. They do a good job, but they are limited resources. And I wasn't that worried. 80% of tumors are benign. I know all these things, so it's okay. Put me in the fall. Then people went on vacation, and then there's the holidays. Thanksgiving was in there. So I finally went into my mammogram in the fall, late fall, December. And I remember there was a voice in my head that said, the mammographer, the technician. And I asked her this question am I crazy or do you see or feel a lump in my left breast? I'm not asking for a diagnosis, I'm asking for an opinion.
She was so kind, did the mammogram. And while I was in there, she said, look at this. And you turn your head, and there was a little bright spot. She goes, that's a little bit outside of the mammogram. I said, So should I pursue this if it were you? And she said, yes, forget about it. Two weeks later, get this envelope in the mail, results clear, nothing. And I went, oh, you have dense breasts. But I remember that conversation, and thank goodness I asked her. I am so grateful because I had to fight with our again, small town, the ultrasound only comes once every two weeks because they live in a town. So go into late January and finally got the ultrasound after the doctor said, no, you don't need it, it's clear you don't need this. It's clear you don't need this. So that took a fight, and I'm glad that I did, because it turned out that I did have cancer. So that was the beginning of all of that in January, and then went into February, met with the team at Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, which is now Fred Hutchinson. And that's where it started. Well, they did the kind of know, this is your treatment. You've got stage two triple positive breast cancer. It's aggressive, this is what we would do for treatment. And I said, wait, let me look. Went home, got completely scared and looked into some alternatives. But my tumor had grown from back in December when they first did it, just till February, just by several millimeters. And so it scared me. I opted for the traditional twelve rounds of weekly chemo and then targeted chemo every three weeks with the triple positive aspect, which I quit after about six months because I was a wreck.
I was a wreck. The pain level was so high and my body was just done, so I just didn't tolerate it. I think I had every side effect in the fine print that you had every one of I did no nausea, I had nausea, but I didn't vomit. And I kept the control of that, but every other little and that started the journey of Gretchen, you really are unique. And my friends started calling me special because I got these weird blisters around my lips and they're like, oh, that's unusual. And then I got fluid around my heart that's not common. And then I got my skin crinkled up like lizard. Oh, that's strange. And just all these little things that were a strange bit. And my joints, I was just in a lot of pain around my joints. My muscles were turning into scar tissue. So I quit the targeted chemo after six months and just decided, you know what, for another 5% of this not coming back, I'm okay with that. So now I'm just on Immunotherapy.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: And so since then you have been on the Immunotherapy.
[00:10:08] Speaker C: And I got appendicitis.
I know, it just keeps coming. And I didn't know it because again, no white blood cells. I had quit and then I went into the spring of next year, so now we're in 2022, and just kept feeling lousy and kept asking how I keep feeling so lousy I quit everything. This has been a couple of months. Anyways, turned out to have appendicitis that went undiagnosed again due to low white blood count and no symptoms, just kind of this well, like you feel like you're still on chemo, right? Yeah. Then it inflamed my hip joint. So I got ileosoas bursitis, fancy word for swelling.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Pain in the hip. Yeah.
[00:10:59] Speaker C: And those laboral tears, and it had got some labor tears from that. So I was in pain and that's right about when I think I was at the end of my rope there. That's when I just said done. And that was in March of 2022 and recovered from that appendicitis. Then the Ileoso aspersitis, and that was in June when I just said, oh, this is not living.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: So physically, obviously you were not doing well mentally and emotionally, it sounds like you were struggling as well. Talk a little bit more about that. What was the impact both of being diagnosed and then also the treatment and the impact it was having on your body?
[00:11:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, getting diagnosed was shocking because it was just and it shocked a lot of other people too. It was like, oh crap, if Gretchen gets cancer, that means I can get cancer. Because my lifestyle of eating fairly healthy from the garden. Like I said, I'm a gardener, so I'm not perfect. I like my dark chocolate covered almonds. Who doesn't?
I enjoy exercise, I enjoy the wilderness, anything, whether it's hiking, biking, walking, kayaking, I enjoy all of those things. So very active lifestyle and then no parents, no aunts, no grandparents, went back family tree a couple of generations, nothing environment, grew up in the country, no environmental toxins. So it was very shocking. And at first it was like, okay, I'm going to beat this. And then as my body started to get beaten down, so did the mental fortitude went down as well?
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah. How did your diagnosis and treatment, since this sounds like it was a whole package deal, how did it impact your social life, your relationships both with your friends and family?
[00:13:01] Speaker C: That is one of the biggest blessings I think of this is that it sounds backwards, but I feel like I got to see my own funeral. In a way that's how I kind of viewed it. People came and I received so much love from my friends and the community. It just makes me tear up that I had to have drivers because I'm 2 hours away from treatment.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Oh wow.
[00:13:34] Speaker C: As anyone that knows, all the appointments involved, there's hundreds I would say by the time you're at the end. But every week to chemo, I didn't think I had twelve friends that wanted to spend an entire day with me. And they're like, oh no, Gretchipu, that's awesome with you. And I'm like, well there's not going to be a lot of me to hang out with on the way home. Leaving at 05:00 a.m. In the morning. How can that be exciting to you? And the meals and then just the occasional visit, the respectful visit of just brief, just a brief. Can I bring you a smoothie? Need anything from the store?
Just flowers, a card in the mail, text message, those types of things were just they kept me going.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: That's awesome. How did your kids handle it? I'm wondering? And how you say they're grown.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: Yeah, well, they were teenagers then, older teenagers. And one I think they were a little bit scared, but my youngest was like, you got this, G Mommy. We got nicknames for everybody.
So made me a little poster to put on the TV of a wrestler. And it's like, you can throw this down, G Mommy, you got this. So he was positive.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:15:02] Speaker C: Yeah, he did talk to his friends, so thank goodness, which I found out later. I didn't realize that he went to his friends. And then my older son, he was pretty stoic about it and it was helpful in his way, but definitely scared. Scared.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I would imagine they both were. And we all handle it in different ways, for sure. So you've painted a little bit of picture of what your life was like before Epic. How did you hear about Epic experience during this time?
[00:15:39] Speaker C: Through the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, I was done with the twelve rounds of chemo, was still doing the targeted, but like I said, I kept feeling horrible. And this is like six months after I had quit or maybe five, so I thought I would be feeling a little bit better. And I got onto the website and I was like, God, they said they offer spiritual help, they offer nutrition, they got offer I need something, I need something. And there was a little icon somewhere, I can't remember, but somewhere on their page of Fred Hutchinson Seattle Cancer Care, there was a little icon and I clicked on it and filled out everything.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: I mean, I just realized this was all during COVID So you were doing all this, a lot of it during COVID And I think you attended one of the summer camps. That was soon after we started doing camps again because it was a period.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: That we had yeah, camps had stopped. Yeah, this was the first, at least that's what they told me. This was their first time doing a camp after COVID.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: So that was March of.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Camper.
[00:16:57] Speaker C: Yeah, sorry, it was summer of what are we at?
[00:17:02] Speaker B: 2022.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: 2022. Thank you. Yes, we're in 2023, so yes.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: So when you went and you applied and you did all that, what were your expectations like? You saw about Epic experience, you saw some of the stuff on the website.
What were you hoping for before you went?
[00:17:21] Speaker C: Before I went, well, I had kind of forgotten about it until I was contacted, but my hope was like, oh, this is hope is like junior high camp when I went to church camp. And we got to just run around all day and do activities and sit by the campfire and eat food and then do all that with your friends. So that was my hope, had forgotten about it. And then when I was contacted to be a part of it, I was like, oh, I hope I can survive the plane ride. I hope that this is just a good outdoor experience.
That I can connect with others. I had no expectations because I was in so much pain. I was in need to connect with others through the similar experience. So my hope was connecting and sitting around a campfire. That was it.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: And did it meet your expectations? And if so, how?
[00:18:25] Speaker C: It was a little more than a campfire, but we did get the campfire. All right, this is cool. It was in the outdoors, beautiful outdoor setting. So I was like, okay, check. Everything else was bonus, and I would call it beyond. Beyond. So that's probably the simplest way to put it. But from the connections and meeting others, the setting, the food, the activities, everything was not expecting all that. I'm thinking, well, junior high camp where you pitch in and do stuff, so this was amazing.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: So what have you taken away and applied or incorporated back home? What were one or two of the things that have really made a lasting impact in your life now?
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Well, there was a lot of things, but probably the first day when we went to go do an activity, I went to Wingman, and I remember coming up to him and it just makes me tear up thinking about it. But I said, I don't think I can do this. I don't think my body is going to be able to do this. I want to do it, but I don't think I can.
And he just said, okay.
And I went, what?
He said, no problem. We'll take care of you.
And I'm like, oh, so it's okay if I fail. Like, I can try, and it's okay if I fail? And he said, yes.
And that permission to fail made me saw me. I just loved every bit.
So what that did coming back home is like, I can try these things and it's okay.
It's okay if I go out to try to play pickleball and only make it through. And I would tell my friends, like, hey, I might not last five minutes, but sure enough, five minutes turned into ten, and pretty soon, forget about the pain and ten minutes turns into 20 minutes and the permission to fail, but just try.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:20:38] Speaker C: Was a big takeaway.
And just doing the activities just really filled me up and gave me confidence and the realization that I don't have to do everything 100% perfectly or be the best, but just try.
Five minutes of pickleball is better than no minutes of pickleball.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: That's right.
That's great. I do remember watching you soak up the activity. You were 100% in each time.
[00:21:14] Speaker C: Yes. And somehow that safety net, that safety net of it's okay to fail. Boy, did I go the other direction, because I knew something was going to catch me.
That really opened up my life, my world when I came back.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:21:36] Speaker C: To living again. It opened up to living again.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: And one of the things that you've done since you've come back, is you helped epic experience at a regional meetup in Seattle, and I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about what the day was like. Share a little bit about the day. Let's start there.
[00:21:52] Speaker C: Yes. Well, credit to Princess. She's the one that did all the work, and she has amazing friends.
But I did drive the farthest to attend, so it was great.
Again, the connection. It was very obvious there is a need to connect.
It was so fun to meet others who've had the Epic Experience, but there was others that surprised me that just showed up. And they had books. I was like, wow, I thought that took guts. But it just shows that need for connection. And she did an amazing job with the food and the activities, and we all didn't want to go home. I think our feedback was, let's do more. Let's make this a longer experience, not just a few hours. So she did a great job. I hope that those continue. There is a need, definitely.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Well, and that's interesting. So in observing people who had not been to an epic experience and, like you said, took some courage to show up, do you think they immediately were able to kind of jump in and join the crowd and everybody because of that connection with cancer? Is there that unfortunate, I guess, connection that we all have, but that also bonds us more quickly, maybe, than in other situations?
[00:23:17] Speaker C: Yes, I think so. There's just a natural well, it's not natural, but a learned understanding. A learned understanding, because the people that showed up were at all different stages.
And the caregivers, too, the need for the caregivers support there. And so that was really interesting to see. I showed up, and I'm like, I didn't even say hi. I just said, I'm so tired from driving. Can I just take I need to close my eyes. And that immediate, like, oh, yeah, we got that immediate support. Like, no judgment. The non judgment, the understanding is just a natural or a learned connection. So it was a very welcoming again, credit to Princess for making it that way. But I just snuck off, sat in a chair for ten minutes, and I.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Know you guys had good food. What did you guys do that day? What was your activity at that meetup?
[00:24:23] Speaker C: Yeah, she had organized at St. Edwards park. But it's not just a park. This is acres and acres on Lake Washington. And they gave us the whole history because there's a whole building which they've now turned. It used to be like a nunry and a hospital, and they've turned it into a hotel. There's a big gym that had pickleball courts. So that was one of the optional activities, of course, that got me excited right there.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:24:52] Speaker C: And then there's lots of hiking trails of all levels around this area. And so we did a walking tour. And then there was an option to do just some short little hikes. That wasn't a real long. Would have been nice, but again, everybody was at different levels. And so if you wanted to go on a real steep hike, you could have zipped off and done that or just stayed around the camp area. We were in a nice little orchard kind of setting. So Princess did a really good job of meeting all levels, but I would say walking, hiking, and pickleball.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: That's awesome. And for those of you who are listening and don't know, epic Experience is doing some of these regional events all across the country. We've had hikes in Colorado Springs. They've done kayaking on the East Coast in various locations. They're doing a pumpkin smashing coming up in Pennsylvania, which sounds absolutely amazing.
So if you are interested in something like that, you can check the Epic Experience website or they'll be advertised in the newsletter if you get that. Well, I'm wondering if there's anything, Gretchen, that I have not asked you about that you would want to share either with someone who is a survivor or is a caregiver or just happened upon this podcast. Is there anything you'd want to share with someone listening?
[00:26:11] Speaker C: I would like to say to be your own advocate, ask questions and trust your instincts. Cancer is life changing.
But be open to the transformative process. Just be open. There is still much joy and some many lovely moments along the way. I know you heard about some of my hardships, but having my friends, we did some really fun things in between. Little bits here and there. There's still some majestic moments to happen when you're in that messy middle. And I'm still in it. But I'm still finding joy. And you can too, I guess. So that's what I'd like to say and encourage anyone to attend those regional meetups. I went all by myself, and of course I was nervous, but the instant connection and support was worth the long drive.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Thank you. That's great. I like that. Majestic moments in the midst of the messy middle. Yes, for sure.
And one of those majestic moments can be going to one of those regional events, right? Finding that connection that you never knew was even out there.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: And I love that your friends were with you for those little moments all along the way. That's amazing.
Well, I always end with this question very important. Marshmallows over a campfire, slow and steady or flaming crispy?
[00:27:43] Speaker C: I would say before the Epic Experience, I was a slow and steady person.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Wow. We even changed this for you.
[00:27:52] Speaker C: Yes, I know.
It's been an epic experience.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Truly life changing.
[00:27:59] Speaker C: Truly life changing. I am now flame and crispy. I like it. Bring the heat.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: I am with you, baby.
[00:28:07] Speaker C: I'm ready.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: I love it. That's awesome. Well, Gretchen, thank you so much. I really appreciate your honesty for sharing all about your story and your background and the tough moments, as well as the magical what did you call them? Not magical, majestic moments. I love that. I really appreciate that. So until we gather around the campfire, keep living beyond cancer.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: Thank you. It's been an honor.
[00:28:39] Speaker D: Thank you for listening to this episode of Campfires of hope living beyond cancer. For more information about Epic Experience and our programs, or to donate, please visit our
[email protected]. Music for this podcast is provided by Moonshiner Collective. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us so we can share our story with more people. Also, be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you'll know when new episodes are released. We hope you come back and join us for our next episode.
[00:29:10] Speaker C: The Night We Can Go. Some American police still on our family end.
